What happens when these spaces disappear? They've always been entangled.
Take Syria, today (literally researched released today) postulates that the war/s there are in part the result of climate change. Who will be physical when the land is scorched? And perhaps more to the point, what are we, as NetArtizens doing/writing/ about it? I think this is critical, fundamental.

On the other point, I don't find the world divided in any sense into three spaces; there are any number of divisions that might or might not be made, and I think they obscure the entanglements and fuzzy boundaries we all live within (for example, ourselves and everything else, as microbial life). For me, that neatness has disappeared, just as "real" and "virtual" seem still to be inauthentic categories; when amoeba can learn, without the presence of a nervous system, what world are they living in? What world are we? I remember von Foerster defining life as fundamentally characterized by negation, for example, logic and categorization all the way down.

- Alan

On Tue, 3 Mar 2015, Randall Packer wrote:

Alan, networked space, or ?the third space? as I like to call it, is the
world we are gravitating towards (no pun intended). I am always surprised
the degree to which we forget or don?t pay attention to whether we are
occupying the first space (physical world) or the third space. (by the
way, the second space is the representational/symbolic world). We are
losing the distinction between the real and the virtual, the two melding
together in a kind of ?post reality.? I think for future generations the
distinction will no longer matter. Consider that whichever space we are
operating in, we will always occupy real, physical space, but our
interactions will increasingly be situated on the network: just like right
now, as we communicate through this list. So I would disagree that we
can?t prepare, perhaps what it means to be a netartizen is to be
self-critical and self-aware about the evolution from the first to the
third space. The preparation is in realizing its inevitable and its real.


"The digital, I think, is unbearably fragile; not only is privacy lost,
but
we are not prepared, and can't prepare, for the attacks and corrosion to
come; instead, we grant these worlds a solidity they don't have, never
have had."



On 3/3/15, 12:28 AM, "Alan Sondheim" <[email protected]> wrote:



Hi, a few comments here. My own work is a continuous production which at
one time I characterized as an ongoing meditation on cyberspace; at this
point I see "real" and "virtual" inauthentic (in Adorno's sense), see the
body as inherently entangled among symbolic systems which have always
been
with us, see culture ("real" and "virtual") as characteristic of
organisms
in general, and see abjection/annihilation as increasing endemic in the
world. It's this last I was trying to address; I wrote a text, sent it
through od into hex, mangled the hex, etc.; the main point for me is the
multiplication by zero, the annihilation of difference as the world is
subsumed and flattened. This in fact has been the focus of my work for a
while now, summed up by the phrase (which is also the title of a month's
dialog on empyre, that was moderated by Johannes Birringer and myself)
ISIS, Absolute Terror, Performance - ISIS replaceable by any thing,
group,
etc. insistent on the scorched earth of scorched earth, the elimination
of
culture, difference, the production of genocide and the simultaneous
erasure of that production beneath the sign of what? capital, religion,
ideology, etc. So I use technologies and networking to open up, across
them, the plateaus of urgent response to a crisis which, with increasing
population, temperature, and species extinctions, is bound to dominate,
if
not eliminate, us all.

I suppose in that sense I'm not a netartizen; I grovel around the real,
trying to deal with issues of slaughter, unutterable pain, anguish, and
so
I probably repeat myself endlessly in this manner.

The digital, I think, is unbearably fragile; not only is privacy lost,
but
we are not prepared, and can't prepare, for the attacks and corrosion to
come; instead, we grant these worlds a solidity they don't have, never
have had.

- Alan, and thank you for the opportunity to respond.

On Mon, 2 Mar 2015, Randall Packer wrote:

I am intrigued by Alan Sondheim?s response to our NetArtizens call with
a
reference to cultural heritage as a sequence of datapoints, i.e.:

0000000067141066147020145071157060440063556066145063040*
0000020071157072040062550062563061040064545063556020163*
0000040067543062555072040071150072557064147060440074556*

Here are some questions to consider:

Are we in fact producing a cultural history that emanates from the
language of computers? Are the cultural references of today increasingly
coded in numerical values that will need to be compiled and encoded in
the
far future by curious historians of the 21st century? What in fact are
we
leaving behind for future generations on our hard drives and cloud
repositories? And how will the technological culture of today be viewed
when these values are no longer decipherable. Are we in fact erasing our
historical past as we create it for the digital future?

Randall



On 3/2/15, 11:07 AM, "ruth catlow" <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear NBers

You can see some early submissions to 0p3nR3p0 here
http://0p3nr3p0.net/show/netartizens

I have been tweeting some of them to twitter.com/netartizens using the
#netartizens hashtag.

Check them out.

Send @Lowpolybot your images for auto-asbtract low-polygon artworks by
@quasimondo http://bit.ly/18EPVBG. #netartizens

net art expressionism or glitchart? - D!G!t4L.DUMP!ng.GR0UND by
@domibarra http://bit.ly/1DvQAwN #netartizens

The Camera in the Mirror by Mario Santamaria: Google robot sees itself
reflected in the mirror. http://bit.ly/1APnn2z #netartizens

Cultural Heritage by @alansondheim http://www.alansondheim.org/ch.png
#netartizens

Cheers
Ruth

The NetArtizens Project
http://www.furtherfield.org/netartizens/



On 02/03/15 13:30, Randall Packer wrote:
Greetings Everyone:

First, thank you Marc & Ruth, along with Nick Briz & Joseph Chiocchi
from
0p3nr3p0.net, who have been working for the past weeks to create the
NetArtizens Project, which begins today and culminates with the Art of
the
Networked Practice | Online Symposium (March 31 ? April 2).

So to begin the conversation, what does it mean to be a NetArtizen?
That
is the subject at hand over the next month, not to be defined by us,
but
fleshed out in in this space through all the varying perspectives that
make up this community.

And furthermore, as NetArtizens, we ask: how has your practice as an
artist, educator, writer scholar & activist been shaped / catalyzed /
transformed / by your use of the network? How has the Net altered the
creation, contextualization, and diffusion of your work? How has the
Net
impacted your studio process?  And finally, in reference to this
forum,
what are the various ?net behaviours? that result in the immersion &
flow
of media creation, research, and information distribution that we
participate in each and every day via the network?

As we consider and discuss these questions (and more!), we approach
the
NetArtizens Project as an opportunity to experiment in the power of
the
network to catalyze collective narrative. As NetArtizens, we have the
means to tell our stories, share our work, debate our opinions - not
just
as individual broadcasters speaking to the multitude ? but
collaboratively
in a hyper-distributed, socially-engaged, many-to-many exchange of
ideas
and opinion.

We invite you to explore the NetArtizens Project, survey the landscape
of
discourse & production we have provided, and become a
?super-participant?
by shaping & sharing & disseminating the ongoing narrative. If the
flow
of
this project becomes a drowning experience, we ask that you embrace
and
critique it! That?s the only way we?ll come to terms and fully grasp
the
meaning of our evolving role as NetArtizens.

Best,

Randall

The NetArtizens Project
http://www.furtherfield.org/netartizens/

The Art of the Networked Practice | Online Symposium
http://oss.adm.ntu.edu.sg/symposium2015/

Reportage from the Aesthetic Edge
http://www.randallpacker.com/






On 3/2/15, 7:00 AM, "ruth catlow"<[email protected]>
wrote:

Dear Netbehaviourists,

It is our pleasure to introduce Randall Packer, composer, artist,
writer, educator, former Secretary of the US Department of Art &
Technology, and convener of the upcoming Art of Networked Practice |
Online Symposium (31 March 31 ? 2 April 2015).

We have invited Randall to act as host and moderator for The
NetArtizens
Project, a month of discourse and artistic production across 3
network
channels including our very own Netbehaviour discussion list,
beginning
right here, right now, and leading  up to the symposium. You are also
invited to contribute to the NetArtizens Open Online Exhibition, an
evolving showcase of works submitted between March 2 ? April 2, 2015.

For more information about The NetArtizens Project and how to
participate:http://www.furtherfield.org/netartizens/

We invite you all to join us to explore, express, and debate the role
of
the network in our individual and collective practices as artists,
scholars, educators, and citizens of the Net.

The NetArtizens Project is devised by Furtherfield in collaboration
with
Nick Briz & Joseph Chiochhi.

RELEVANT LINKS:

Randall Packer
http://www.randallpacker.com/

The NetArtizens Project
http://www.furtherfield.org/netartizens/

Art of the Networked Practice | Online Symposium
http://oss.adm.ntu.edu.sg/symposium2015/

Randall will say more about it now...!
Can't wait to see what happens!!!

Marc, Ruth and the Furtherfield Crew

--->

A living, breathing, thriving networked neighbourhood - proud of free
culture, claiming it with others ;)

Furtherfield ? online arts community, platforms for creating,
viewing,
discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
intersections of art, technology and social change.
http://www.furtherfield.org

Reviews, articles, interviewshttp://www.furtherfield.org/features

Furtherfield Gallery ? Finsbury Park, London.
http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery

Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
http://www.netbehaviour.org
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==
email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/
web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285
music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/
current text http://www.alansondheim.org/tb.txt
==




==
email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/
web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285
music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/
current text http://www.alansondheim.org/tb.txt
==
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