Hi there,
Being a ND consultant , I thought I'd jump in.
At 02:10 PM 27-09-99 -0700, Joel Parker Henderson wrote:
> > Why would I want to continue another minute developing web products using
> > Netdynamics?
>
>Several reasons.
>
>NetDynamics is the fastest, most robust Java application server ever
>built. Frankly, if you can find anything out there as good as
>NetDynamics right now, switch to it and let me know what it is.
That's a pretty bold statement, ND is fast OK , about the stability , I'd
consider that
a vague issue , since you can easily write buggy ND code & configure ND in
such a way that
it will be unstable. This happens , I've seen it many times.
> > I have just recommended termination of further development on our project
> > using Netdynamics because the risks are too great that we would have to
> > rewrite the entire project with some future, unproven iPlanet tool. Our
>
>For the future, NetDynamics and Kiva will be merged and named the
>Sun/Netscape iPlanet Application Server. This is all very well proven
>technology-- Kiva is blazingly fast and scalable at non-Java code, and
>NetDynamics is blazingly fast and scalabe at pure Java code, so you will
>get the best of both worlds. I want to be very clear that there is no
>"miracle code" coming out of nowhere-- both servers have been used
>thoroughly by the largest customers in the world, in mission-critical
>environments, for years.
I can't say I'd agree with Kiva being blazingly scalable at non-java code.
At least
you're admitting (seemingly) that it's not blazingly fast at java code. I
know ND can be pretty fast and is
definetely more scalable than Kiva, but that part of the ND code is not
what will be in the iPlanet code-base AFAIK.
Judging from this , I'd say we get a blazingly slow ND server when iPlanet
AS 6.0 is released.
>Yes, there will be issues of combining code, various event models, J2EE
>support, and so on. These are challenges for us at Sun, and may take
>us some time to iron out, but we absolutely will not put out a bad or
>defective product. Try putting yourself in our shoes: we are combining our
>two largest most important groups of customers, so we are going to be
>very, very careful about delivering a top-notch new server.
I hope so.
>We have two solid engineering teams that have worked together for years,
>and everyone is staying on board. Sun is absolutely committed to building
>the new Application Server, and Sun has the strength to make it the de
>facto industry standard
Hard to check if everyone stays on board, hard to believe too.
>For comparison, companies like WebLogic have very good app servers,
>and may be a bit ahead of us on future technologies like J2EE.
>If J2EE is crucially important to you right now, you may want to
>look at WebLogic. However, I would never bet my business on BEA
>the WebLogic parent company, and I would question BEA salespeople
>very carefully on why all BEA/WebLogic employees are quitting.
Spreading FUD on BEA is not going to help us either, and questioning anyone
who sells software that is this expense is always a good thing. Please show
some proof about engineers quitting , or don;t mention it.
> > our business plan can not afford this expense and uncertainty.
> > Are we making the wrong business and technical decision?
>
>I think it would be wise to asses the real risks. First, ND5 will continue
>to be supported for years, so your existing code will continue to work.
>
>Next, Sun will combine ND and Kiva, both of which are proven app servers,
>built by proven engineering teams. There is some risk that it will take us
>a little longer to do it carefully and prudently, so if you need to be on
>the absolute bleeding edge, you may want to look at other products.
>
>Finally, the worst-case risk for you is that Sun will totally screw things
>up, and the iPlanet appserver will be a disaster. Even if this happens,
>you will still be using Java, still be building portable business logic
>objects, still be migrating toward JavaBeans, EJB, Servlets, JSP, and the
>rest of J2EE.
>
>In case it's relevant, I have evaluated the iPlanet source code and the
>engineers, and I am extremely impressed with iPlanet-- and I don't say
>that lightly. I'm a tech guy, not a marketing guy, so I can say with
>confidence that the iPlanet team is very skilled and has solid software.
As you know, since you reviewed the ND code , when developing in ND5 , your
code is split in the NDOF for visual, EJB mixed with NDOF for business and
PAC code (Query, Procedural and OO) for connectivity. Which parts will be
and which will not be supported in the iPlant AS 6.0 ? I am guessing, call
me pessimistic, that it will be the NDOF only.
>Do keep emailing me with questions, comments, etc.
>and I'll be sure that people at the Alliance see them.
>Also, talk to your sales reps and let them know how you feel,
>and that you need more information about the future of ND.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Joel Henderson
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From my POV the plans for merging the two completely different app servers
in the way Sun is planning, is
not going to give us the best possible app server. As you pointed out ND is
pretty fast and scalable, Kiva is NOT, w/ Java. But my guess is that
iPlanet AS 6.0 is going to be Kiva on J2EE + NDOF , which would be mixing
the worst of both worlds.
On the other hand, if AS6.0 *would* be ND on J2EE + Kiva templates ,
maintaining the distributed CORBA architecture of ND , the 6.0 release
would be excellent, since we would be mixing the best of both, or at least
avoid the worst of Kiva, it's scalability!
If you could shed some light on the merge-details, that would be excellent!
Cheers,
Edwin van der Sanden.
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