Hi Mehmet,

I think I could just sign your text at the bottom.

Lada

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 13:25, MehmetErsue <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I think the adoption of the DT draft is fine. We agreed in IETF 97 to adopt 
> and finalize the DT draft in NETMOD WG, which I still support.
> 
> I believe the bigger issue is to agree on a plan concerning the related work 
> and the re-organization of existing standards. As a matter of fact this plan 
> will lead to updating the charter of two WGs and the work we are going to 
> start.
>  
> I see the DT document as a datastore solution proposal. There are different 
> gaps and issues which still need to be addressed and the solution proposal 
> needs yet to be discussed and finalized. The document is providing 
> information on the history, explaining the need for a generic solution as 
> well as is discussing different scenarios. As such I believe the datastore 
> solution proposal from the DT should be published with the intended status 
> Informational RFC. 
> 
> Based on the finalized and agreed datastore solution we should do different 
> updates to existing documents in NETCONF and NETMOD WGs. With this action we 
> can also fix well-known issues.
> 
> Concerning the NETCONF WG I would see it as valuable if we develop:
> - a RFC6241bis draft removing the current datasore concept specification, and 
> getting rid of well-known issues e.g. with the <get> operation,
> - a new protocol- and language-independent standard document (RFC XYZ) 
> defining the generic datastore concept and framework and describing its use 
> (based on and following the DT solution draft), 
> - adding potential extensions to RFC6241bis (following the DT draft and with 
> a normative reference to RFC XYZ),
> - adding potential extensions to a RESTCONF-bis RFC (following the DT draft 
> and with a normative reference to RFC XYZ),
> 
> Concerning the NETMOD WG I would see it as valuable if we develop:
> - RFC7950bis deleting protocol-dependent details and specifying the datastore 
> usage with YANG on a generic level (with a normative reference to RFC XYZ),
> - adding potential extensions to RFC7950bis, e.g. concerning the proposed 
> <notification> element,
> - possibly an RFC 6244bis to describe architectural aspects. However RFC6244 
> is Informational and a RFC6244bis would be still Informational. I'm not sure 
> whether this is really necessary. The DT proposal does already describe such 
> a solution and can be seen as an update to RFC 6244.
> - RFC6087bis giving guidelines on how to use YANG with the new datastore 
> concept.
> 
> Referring to Lada's proposal concerning the spin off document from RFC7950 
> ("Adapting NETCONF for use with YANG"), 
> I think this can be provided in the corresponding protocol RFCs, i.e. 
> for NETCONF a section on "Using NETCONF with YANG" in RFC6241bis and for 
> RESTCONF "Using RESTCONF with YANG" in RESTCONF-bis RFC.
> 
> Hope this helps as a starting point on the way to a good plan.
> 
> PS: As Benoit suggested some time ago we might also consider to rename 
> NETCONF WG as it is not only on NETCONF protocol anymore. 
> 
> Regards,
> Mehmet 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:19 PM Andy Bierman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 4:02 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 05, 2016 at 11:36:11AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I disagree that the datastore model is a protocol specific aspect. I
> > > consider datastores an architectural component binding data models and
> > > protocols together. In fact, the 'traditional' datastore model
> >
> > I would agree with this if datastores were a general concept in YANG, but 
> > the revised-datastores draft explicitly introduces the "intended" and 
> > "applied" datastores that may be irrelevant to other protocols using YANG, 
> > and even needn't be used in all NETCONF implementations. I wouldn't call 
> > this "an architectural component" of YANG.
> >
> 
> An architectural component of this new management framework (that does
> not have a name). The fact that not all protocols may expose all
> datastores is IMHO not a reason that the datastore model is not an
> architectural framework.
> 
> > If you are saying that it will have nontrivial impact on YANG, I would like 
> > to see it explained in sec. 6.3. Without this information I am quite 
> > reluctant to agree with the adoption.
> 
> An operational state datastore has implications how one writes data
> models. It may not directly affect YANG itself but surely the usage of
> YANG.
> 
> > See above - architectural aspects need to be relevant to all protocols.
> 
> Yes, but relevant to all protocols does not mean every protocol needs
> to expose say all datastores. But every protocol should be clear about
> how what it exposes relates to the architectural framework.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a "current solution" consisting of hard-wired object semantics
> (e.g., ifAdminStatus and ifOperStatus).  This solution does not require
> special protocols or datastores, but it is being replaced by a generic 
> solution.
> 
> If the "generic" solution requires special procedures which differ on each 
> protocol,
> then it might end up be worse than the hard-wired solution that works on 
> every protocol.
> So I agree with Juergen that this is primarily an architectural issue.
> 
> 
> /js
> 
> Andy
> 
>  
> 
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Mehmet

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C




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