I agree Felix that it is probably too late for Brexit..but... there remains a chance that the parliamentary log jam means that other options cannot gain a majority and there is enough of a realisation that ‘crashing out without a deal’ would be a disaster to make another referendum least worst option left.. Perhaps May has just enough grasp of reality to realise that a ’no deal brexit’ would keep her party out of office for a generation.
Under those circumstances it would be likely that rather than repeat the polarising fiasco of the 2016 vote we would adopt a more thoughtful approach that would include Citizens Forums as part of the equation. This scenario although unlikely remains a possibility and so it is important to be prepared for this eventuality.. To answer you question about Labour’s position: they have proposed a ‘softer version’ of Brexit which involves reamaining in a customs union which would make the Irish boarder problem soluble and they called for a vote of no confidence in May which she won. So no General Election likely unless May tries a last roll of the dice rather than going down the other paths which are all unpalatable. So the brexit car is stuck deep in the mud.. the wheels are spinning….. we are going no-where… except for sliding into fuck knows where… And that it is not so much a journey as a predicament and is why we can’t yet rule out another referendum not because anybody wants one but…well you know…. We are Sooo fucked! David PS for the record below is Stella Creasy’s proposed amendment that may be considered tomorow but will almost certainly not be selected for consideration. Labour MP Stella Creasy's amendment Requires the government to ask the EU to postpone Brexit day for an unspecified period and give the public more say in the Brexit process through a 250-member "Citizens' Assembly". This would: * comprise a "representative sample of the population" to make recommendations on the Brexit process after 10 weeks of consideration * be supported by an "expert advisory group” * require the government to respond within two weeks On 28 Jan 2019, at 13:55, Felix Stalder <fe...@openflows.com> wrote: > > > On 28.01.19 13:46, carlo von lynX wrote: >> Even better when expert knowledge is in check by liquid >> democracy rather than size-limited citizen assemblies. >> We actually have a new technology that solves this >> challenge but it is still being used too rarely. > > > As far as I know from the German Pirate Party, the use of liquid > democracy has been pretty problematic, to say the least. But anyway, > these are different things, as David said, no either or. > > Citizens' Assemblies are for a smaller number of citizens coming > together multiple times over longer period of times (say one year), > discussing, in depth and with experts, contentious issues. The > advantages of a small number is that you can be more clear with the > selection process (ensuring a minimum of diversity) and you can > materially suppor the participants (again, important is you want to > include people who canno affort "free labor".). > > The advantage of such assemblies really lies in the qualitative > dimension, people from different backgrounds being forced to listen to > each other, respond face-to-face to each other, and seeing where > agreements can be reached and were disagreement might be rephrased to > change the question into something more productive. > > This is really hard to replicate electroncially and with large number of > participants. > > But to iniate this process now for Brexit, it's really too late. This > takes a long time, and it would mean, in effect, to day inside the EU > until the process is finished, and then we will see again, depending on > the outcome of the process. > > What I've always wondered by Labor hasn't come up with their version of > Brexit and then called for a new elections to make sure they have the > majority to bring it through parliament. At least, then people could > vote, even indirectly, for their prefered version of the thing, without > having to re-do the vote, which would be problematic, to say the least. > > > > > Felix > > > > > -- > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| http://felix.openflows.com > |Open PGP http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=0x0bbb5b950c9ff2ac > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
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