On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Arun M <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Vickram, > > I think the issue and central message of Sunde is bit more deeper (I > am not assuming that you didnt get it). The fight for freedom in > computing or knowledge is (and can only be) part of a war against > inhumane system of Capitalism. > > Importance of Sunde's msg comes from the fact that many in this fight > for freedom in computing and knowledge saw it separately from large war. > That mistake must be corrected as we move on. (Where is idea of Freedom > in the 'FOSS Movement' we have now ?) > > We all may have disagreement about the 'C' word. I personally had bitter > wars with its official proponents. But we can only wish way Marx and the > 'C' word. World will have to look back at it, rediscover it, redefine it > -- if it is for a better world for many/or to avert the crisis humanity > is facing. Brilliance and truthfulness of words of Marx keep it > shining(despite its misuse). > > Hence I believe we will hear more 'C' word and more 'F' word. A > masculine version of 'C' had run its course. May be a feminine one has > got a chance(Rosa Luxemburg /Jose Mujica). >
Responding to this post (and Justin's which followed after an hour, but doesn't include Arun's reply): As I said, it is the word that is the problem, not the result of its usage, and Sunde also said as much. My problem with the usage of the word is that, for far too many people, it obscures rather than enlightens, and the blurring detracts from the point of his message. Olden communism, I will repeat, in my understanding, was simply impossible to implement, because it depends on vast amounts of real-time information access, and tried to get going in dependence upon systems and people trained in those ways that were incompetent and incapable of serving the purpose. Needless to say, it ended up, in far too many situations, being appropriated by power-hungry individuals for whom human rights was possibly a joke. And the exact same applies to many leaders and power centers of capitalistic economy nations, which is why I think the problem lies beyond the labels. The great enemy of human liberation is the bureaucracy needed by most implementing systems, purportedly intended to smooth the implementation of those ideologies, be it capitalism or communism (which are in today's world merely labels that breathtakingly fail to encompass the true implications of either of those approaches). Why information technology? Because freely available information is exactly the kind for which one does not need a bureaucracy. (Not that systems administrators are not also a form of bureaucracy... and that's why maybe one needs to take a long, cold, and very hard look at AI). And as for 'Where is Freedom in FOSS?', I think Nagarjuna captured it quite well in his presentation yesterday at the Global Congress on IP in Delhi. I am not sure it has been published yet, at any rate, I don't have the link, but I can forward slides and an audio file to anyone interested. > > And now on your discussion on why technology is not used for human > emancipation rather than subjugation, i thought this is a very relevant > discussion > > https://hbr.org/2015/12/is-openai-solving-the-wrong-problem > > (Were we also trying to solve a wrong problem ?) > Thanks, that is interesting. Interesting that this tart criticism of aCapitalism, a word I just made up to describe approaches to subvert the tools of capitalism for the furthering of human freedom, should be published in HBR. > > On Mon, 2015-12-14 at 02:59 +0000, Vickram Crishna wrote: > > > > On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 7:58 am Arun M <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > http://motherboard.vice.com/read/pirate-bay-founder-peter-sunde-i-have-given-up > > > > > > > > > > Expectedly, Sunde brings insight. > > > > Personally, I wish he had not used the word communism. It is a sponge > > of a word, oozing confusion over mature discussions, and history has > > made it so. > > > > I always thought the forms of communism that have brought the word > > into disrepute, practised in many countries, could not be expected to > > achieve meaningful results without modern technology, primarily > > communication technologies. But as humans, we are more suspicious of > > technology than we are of social systems. > > > > Technology can be empowering. But we are using it to empower non-human > > entities over human rights, which seems illogical, but then, so does > > history. Like Sunde, I too am getting older, and disheartened by the > > increasingly cavalier use of technology to shatter human rights. He > > thinks this happens due to greed, but that seems to be a human > > characteristic. > > > > The point is, this is not any technology, this is information > > technology. There may be an apocalyptic period ahead, but somewhat > > possible, instead of wanton destruction, this apocalypse will be > > constructive, because the inevitable accompaniment of IT used for > > oppression is that people can find ways to learn. > > > > Will they? Or will the access to information be so constricted that > > such ways will always remain the province of a few discontented people > > ('paranoid conspiracy theorists', is what Sunde says), presumably > > including a handful on this list. > -- Vickram Fool On The Hill <http://communicall.wordpress.com> " *He's still watching me watching you watching the trains go by. And the way he stares --- feel like locking my door and pulling my phone from the wall. His eyes, like lights from a laser, burn making my hair stand --- making the goose-bumps crawl.*" Jethro Tull: Watching Me Watching You (1982)
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