As I said, My sites all look fine in IE, that wasn't the point... they do all use css too, but still fine..
my point is simply to say that ie doesn't support standards consistantly, and add non standard functionaly to their browsers in the hope that developers will use these tags and therefore enable them to use the message that "this looks better with IE" because the other browsers dont support these optional tags.... And can you deny the security point? I went to alot of iis sites during Nimda to try and get email address's to warn admins about their servers being infected. I stopped using IE for that in a real hurry. because I kept getting readme.exe's downloaded to my tmp directory.. I then used mozilla and it didn't auto download any of them... I am worried about it mostly for one reason. In Microsoft, if the boss says: M$ sites will only allow M$ browsers to view them, then it happens. Open source, apache,linux,mozilla people will discuss it for months and do nothing. because they are completely true to their principles and think that anyone who doesn't know better deserves M$. Microsoft will be counting on that, because people have a tendency to not see the forest for the trees. The tactic they are using is the same one in IE itself, they make optional tags to that sites using them are "more functional" in IE then sites not using them (the optional tags),,, then they make sites IE only, thereby making the number of big sites viewable with IE more then the other browsers... then they can say that IE is the only browser on the market able to view all sites... thats the big point they will push further down the line, with FUD as normal. Then we will all curse M$ for their bastidry of the internet, and winge and carry on, but it will be pointless because by then it will be too late and we will have to live with it. I don't actually hate microsoft, they are big business and they are working to get more for their shareholders.. thats pretty standard, the tactics are not nice or standard, but you guys seem to be counting in the DOJ to stop them, they make the US govt to much money to be seriously stopped. the court case to stop IE being integrated has been going for years,, and they lost, and still IE6 comes with 98/98SE/ME/2000 and XP it didn't stop them, and they now have 85% marketshare of the browser market. and now they want to do the same with .NET. responding after the fact makes us look like wingers and whiners... That been said, all my sites look the same using IE, and all my Javascript works fine in IE and all other modern browsers that support it.. I wasn't talking about making sites not work in IE, I was talking about informing users... you guys will see me as a fanatic or something, I am not, I just can see where this is going.... web developers have been going on about having just one dom to support and hoping Netscape will disappear so that we only have to develop for one platform.... well you may well get your wish if this happens, but I don't think you will like the results... Still its about personal choice, so I am not going to argue this any further. This will be in the archives now, so when it happens I will at least have proof that I tried to warn people. :-) rgds Frank -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Hokanson Jr. Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2001 5:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] My personal response to msn.com and Internet Explorer. On Monday 29 October 2001 08:26 am, you wrote: > Microsoft has backed off now, because of attention and articles. > (I may make a note of that in the warning.) > > It will be back when they can do it in a way that won't draw > attention to themselves. > > Mozilla is not significantly slower then IE, I have both and there > isn't much in it. > Exactly what type of computer are you running? MSIE is MUCH faster than Mozilla. The browser is practically integrated into the OS, so it's naturally going to run faster. There have been benchmarks to prove it. If you like, I can dig some up. > IE6 is the first browser to come close to the standards, and it > doesn't support Java > applets or plugins unless you upgrade IE5.5 to IE6, then it keeps > the support, other > wise it does not. (but IE6 is no closer then Mozilla and supports > stuff that wc3 don't. > IE 5.5 supports HTML 4.x just fine. As did 4. I never (repeat, NEVER) came across a site that wouldn't display properly in IE 5.5, until Sridhar posted that one page with CSS. If you're using CSS, then, and only then, would a message be in order. Though make sure you point out that Opera has the same problem. > I am not stopping them from using IE, I am just warning them that > its not our choice > of browser and detailing some reasons why. > Frankly, I consider your pop-up idea to be a form of harassment. You are making a political statement when you should be thinking of intelligent ways to integrate IE into your webdesign. I don't want to be bombarded with pop-ups because you're too lazy or jaded to test out your site in IE. This is a HUGE step back you're taking. You are entitled to place a "best viewed with" text at the bottom of your page because I realize there's always going to be one browser that looks a little better than another, but to state that you won't even try and make your page viewable to roughly two thirds of the web population is ridiculous. This is about giving people a choice. This is why I'm upset as MS. It's not about herding people into a certain direction by using scare tactics. I haven't heard much in the way of truth from you *OR* them. > > We need to do something like this, we can't be underhanded about it > like them, but we > can't afford to sit by while they carry on.. > Do something about WHAT? I think the peanut gallery has spoken on the MSN.com scandel. Everybody agrees it was universally stupid of them and that they were full of crap. MSN.com still looks fine in Mozilla 0.95 as of five minutes ago. > who knows, if M$ .NET takes off, we may one day end up in a > situation where nothing not > IE will be able to browse any .NET supporting site... > Until that day comes, stick with the facts.... > Do you think they wouldn't do that if they could get away with > it???? > > This is very serious,, I really believe something like this is a > good way of educating > people... The truth always prevales, but only if people hear it. > Then start telling the truth. -- John Hokanson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallently. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
