On Monday 18 April 2005 09:19 pm, Philippe Landau wrote: > Miark wrote: > >> how come the mandriva lists are a platform for > >> people enjoying such inhuman jokes ? > > > > One of the cornerstones of humor is that, although it can, it > > often does not reflect reality literally. As such, inhumane > > jokes do not necessarily reflect an inhumane joke teller. Jewish > > jokes told by Nazis is not funny because you know the humor is > > backed by hate. A little self-deprecating humor _among_ Jews, > > however, can be taken with a light heart. Jokes don't really > > matter in and of themselves. It's the heart behind them that > > matters. > > for that, people have to know each other well. > in private emails with very active and longstanding > list members i learned that these "jokes"/flamewars > made them sick to the point of wanting to cry and leave, > and they fear renewed outbreaks like the ones at the beginning > of the second war against iraq in 2003. > to play with nazi jokes on a newbie support list > is not helpful except to the freaks enjoying > to spit from the window on passers-by. > the juvenile gang atmosphere is directly opposed > to building a generally supportive community. > > > For the record, even though Joe's a liberal whacko, he's makes > > me laugh and he contributes valuable advice and news items to > > this list. I don't wish Joe were dead. > > But even without saying that, the heart behind my jokes (and > > perhaps Joe's ;-) has not been hateful. They've been short jabs > > peppered with emoticons. The intent should be clear, and those > > with a keener sense of humor know I wish Joe no ill. (Well, > > perhaps a brief cold.) (*) > > as you explained, not the sense of humour, > but only an insider position allows to see that. > > >>do the current belligerent list "insiders" dominate > >>as much as they currently do because they chased away > >>those with friendly attitudes ? > > > > Tiny wars will break out on any list, not just Mandriva lists. > > Nevertheless, the familiarity of Mandriva insiders with each > > other--the joviality, the OT topics, etc.--is precisely what has > > kept many people using Mandriva and this list. Other distros > > have lists, but we have a warm and open community. More people > > appreciate that than not, I think. > > exactly, and i said that too on these very lists. > but that was before i felt the fearful attempts > to silence me when i spoke out against massive verbal abuse today. > > >>this seems likely seeing the neglect by the list owner, > >>Mandriva, of its user community. > > > > Heated debates come up, as they do and will on any list. They > > fact is the either burn themselves out, or get moved to the OT > > list. Either way, you can simply choose not to read them. With > > that in mind, I know Mandriva has better things to do with its > > money than pay a full-time moderator. We have a pretty > > successful list, in my opinion, so I think the self-regulation > > has been good enough. > > in fact i hate censorship. > but i hate censoring kind and tender souls too > by having a constant atmosphere of fight or die. > so the netiquette not to allow direct verbal attacks on > list participants is important to me. > > Mandriva would only need to pay someone like an hour a day > to provide some support and guidance here. > of course with the total disconnect they display in > recent months i don't hold my breath. > personally, as a consequence, i will move on as soon as possible. > that won't be too soon as good distributions are still > moving slowly. i will miss a few people here, > but the list is showing signs of neglected street kids. > the scene is complemented by some social workers ;-) > currently, without some guiding hands, many good hearts > have not enough protection to really shine here. > > > Miark > > (*) That was a joke. > > thank you for the thoughtful reply, Miark. > > kind regards philippe I missed something here, I don't recall anyone attacking Phillippe. I have seen some attacks on other lists and nothing I said was meant as an attack. Or as spitting from windows on those bellow. But, the world is as it is and we all do as we think best. So if you do leave Phillippe it will ultimately be a loss to the list and to you. Sorry -- Dennis M. linux user #180842
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