Dennis, No, no surprises here. Cold running isn't really a big problem. More like an annoyance. Just trying to improve the breed a bit while fixing the much bigger issue with the hydraulic adjuster/tapping noise.
I enjoy wrenching and thought since I've got the thing torn down this much might as well check the carbs over. I've always heard these critters are cold blooded but I hardly ever except the status quo when it comes to machines. My mantra is it can always run better, but if it can't I may learn something in the process. I totally agree "do no harm" is first. Actually my bent on the phrase is "don't burn any bridges behind you." The o-rings I'm referring to are just that, o-rings not the carb insulator (what I think you're calling a spigot). The four carb insulators (spigots) are in good shape albeit a little hard. There are two o-rings per insulator so I need to replace all eight. I can appreciate your insistence on details and nomenclature. My nomenclature comes straight from the parts fiche and/or Honda shop manual so I try to be at least as clear as those two resources (addmitedly they aren't too clear sometimes <grin>). Now back to the bigger problem. Do you have any suggestions for salvage yards or other resources for obtaining these oil chamber caps Honda part #12221-ME5-035. I tried my "go-to" source, cyclpartswarehouse, and they don't have 'em. Looked on eBay and have emailed several folks parting out compatible models but no luck so far. On Apr 29, 11:07 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote: > Surprise ! Here I thought you were just performing some PM. So you really do > have a problem ? Why not tell us about it first instead of the round-about > way. Describe your problem in grisly detail. Then I'll give you a sarcastic > answer. Or, maybe not (sarcastic) So far you have only wasted your time. > Trouble shooting is best performed on an intact motorcycle. Cold engine > performance is only a temporary situation. Start up problems ? Running / > performance problems ? Let's get terminology down. The O rings ? or are you > talking about the spigots ? They age and crack. Replacements may be > unobtainium. Another part I don't remove unless I HAVE REASON TO. Disturbing > parts on old stuff makes for new problems. Remember, "first, do no harm" > Sealing spigots to the head can be done with silicone seal. If any of those > were to leak, the result would be a lean condition (as in sucking in air) > That you check for by spraying carb cleaner on them when the engine is running > and if they leak, the RPM picks up. (I did say trouble shooting is best done > on an intact engine) > Your turn... > > --- On Wed, 4/29/09, tharrisn <[email protected]> wrote: > From: tharrisn <[email protected]> > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: NOISE cont. > To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 10:10 PM > > Dennis, > > Ok, I'm really bummed. The oil cap I tried to order is unavailable > from my initial source. I'm still looking but I'm beginning to doubt > I'll find such a critter. Do you have any suggestions for good salvage > yards that might have stuff like this. > > While I was waiting for the oil cap to ship (which now will never > happen from that vendor) I removed the carbs and looked 'em over good. > I slid wire down all the jets and made sure they were all the same > size. The slides operated nicely no sticking and a nice "koosh" when > raised and lowered. No varnish or discoloration in the bowls. Did find > the o-rings between the carbs and cylinder to be very brittle and > woefully out of shape. I'm wondering if those might be responsible for > the poor running when cold. Anyway will replace them while I'm at it. > > On Apr 28, 10:54 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote:> So much > great info has been posted already about this. Start by removing > > the carb pack, which is not all that easy but doable. I remove the throttle > cables from the grip end first to allow enough slack at the carbs. That makes > removing the cables from the carbs a lot easier. It helps to loosen the air > box > and slide it back as far as you can. I do not remove the spigots from the head > but some people do. Once all the clamps are loose I use a long bar to pry them > back from the spigots. (be careful how you exert pressure and where) So far, > so > good. I will recommend doing one at a time and not removing them from the > "runner" bar that they are attached to. Invert and remove a bowl. > Remove jets and clean. The wire size for the slow jet is .0011" (eleven ten > thousandth of an inch) The jet is the smallest and most often clogged. It > affects drivability and off-idle throttle response. I use Berkbile 2+2 for a > carb cleaner (not available in some states) Wiring out> the slow jet is the > only way to ensure the jet is actually open and the > > right size. No, I don't recommend removing the diaphram / slides. First off, > if you had a bad one, you'd know it. Real flat acceleration and poor (very) > poor performance. If you stick a finger into the intake side bore and lift a > slide up and let it fall, they make a very distinct noise. As in whoosh... No > noise, bad slide. Try it and see. If you remove them you run the chance of the > diaphram "growing" and not getting it back into place. This is caused > by the wonderful fuel we have and it's effect on that material. Once > released from the caps and exposed to air, all bets are off. It's happened > too often in our shop. Same thing happens to the bowl gaskets (O ring) . Leave > 'em in place or buy new. "Back in the day", we removed and > inspected all these parts... no longer. But, that's when gas was gas and men > were men.> You can reduce the clearance where the actuator contacts the > accellerator > > pump arm if you want to.> I use a silicone spray on the spigots to allow the > carbs to slip back in > > when you're done. Liquid soap works just as well.> I do recommend a carb sync > after major work like this. > > For what it's worth, I hope this helps. Maybe just use Seafoam ? > > > --- On Tue, 4/28/09, tharrisn <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: tharrisn <[email protected]> > > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: NOISE cont. > > To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" > > <[email protected]> > > > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 8:36 AM > > > I found some caps for the anti-foam chambers and have ordered them. > > Should know shortly if they're available. They weren't too > expensive > > and got a bunch of new o-rings for the oil pipes too. Only found one > > of the eight a little marginal but the manual said replace 'em all. If > > the place I ordered the caps can't get 'em I'll go the sealant > > route. > > > Everything else looked good. No pitting, holes or scarring on the cam > > lobes or bearing surfaces. Before putting the bearing caps back on I > > smeared a very light coat of moly grease on the lobe and bearing > > surfaces. > > > While I have everything kinda apart (I didn't have to remove the > > camshafts totally to get to the hydraulic adjusters) I figured I might > > as well work over the carbs too. Can you point me to a good resource > > for rebuilding the carbs? I think I read you don't recommend removing > > the diaphragms and to use some appropriately sized piano wire to > > insure the jets are clean. Along with the other parts I've ordered new > > o-rings for the carb to cylinder junction. Sure would like to use > > Viton o-rings as replacements but it's REALLY hard to find stuff like > > this locally. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. 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