Wait, WHAT? 51/48 (Prius) mileage figures versus 25/35 (Camry) mileage figures don't justify a $3k price difference? Not even full $3k if you're comparing base to base, closer to $2k. Even in the top trims you're paying only $5k more for the Prius versus a standard Camry and $1.5k more versus a top trim Camry Hybrid (40/38, demonstrating the benefits of that Kammback apples to apples). A base Camry hybrid (43/39) actually costs $2k MORE than a base Prius.
You're also forgetting that Civic hybrids don't provide as much of a mileage lift(44/47 vs 30/39, so a 50%/20% increase), they are perennial underperformers in the mileage department (because of the difference between IMA and Synergy), and command a significant price premium (+$6k, or +33%) over a standard Civic. This is versus the Prius/Camry values of +104%/+37% for a +8% price bump. Yes, Toyota wanted something unique to market a new idea. Yes, marketing got on board and pushed HARD. But the basic shape of the Prius was selected as a blend between aerodynamic performance and usable cargo space. And of course it is a perennial complaint of engineers that accountants and marketing designers took their great ideas and ruined them. But the core design of the Prius is still a solidly workable balance between aero and ergo, and it has retained its excellent mileage figures despite getting heavier, more powerful and more tricked out with each generation. I like rooting for an underdog, but not one that's knowingly bullshitting me and we both know it. I'd readily believe 40-50mpg, but the aero just isn't there on the three wheeler to make 80 realistic. Especially not with an engine that's probably a generation out of date without all the trick goodies rolling out with the modern fuel sippers (DI, Forced induction, high compression, etc). -Kurt On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm not saying that the car isn't aerodynamic, I just don't think that it > was the primary driver of the styling. #1 was to make it unique so that > buyers could signal their concern for energy conservation to other drivers. > Look at the Honda Civic hybrid, cars sitting on lots that nobody wanted, > meanwhile there was a waiting list for the Prius. Why? Because the civic > hybrid looked like every other civic on the road and didn't look hybridy > enough. I think the marketing and accounting depts held the engineering > dept back on the Prius or it would have, should have, achieved much better > numbers. As it is the Prius doesn't get enough better mileage than the > Camry to justify the cost difference. I guess what I'm trying to say is > that I'm disappointed that the Prius didn't achieve better with all of > Toyota's resources behind it. In that one aspect the Elio has a better > chance because it's a smaller company willing to take bigger risks with its > image. I agree that 84mpg is a hell of a long shot but we all like to root > for the underdog, right? > > > -Kyle > > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Allen Thomas <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Kyle, if the aerodynamics were done for aethetics then why do all >> hybrids, and most new vehicles have the basic shape, K-back or kammback >> design? Remember the Prius was the first mass produced Hybrid and the Honda >> that came out shortly thereafter looked almost identical. Supposedly its Cg >> is .26. Also the Honda Insight had a 1 Liter motor and could only get MPG >> into the high 60s. >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> The Prius is constrained by being a 4door sedan, plus it weighs tons >>> more. I'm also not convinced that the engineers were tasked with making the >>> most efficient vehicle, but rather a vehicle that seemed more fuel >>> efficient than the competition and stood out with unique styling so that >>> their drivers could appear to be part of *the solution* rather than *the >>> problem*. >>> >>> >>> -Kyle >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Allen Thomas <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> If a Prius can't get any where near 80 mpg then I doubt this will. I >>>> have to think Toyota has a wind tunnel and highly experienced engineers. >>>> >>>> Allen Thomas >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. 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