:-) IMG_0308.jpg <https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_wugBxirhqrcVUtS0ctNDJRSVE/edit?usp=drive_web>
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Kurt Nolte <[email protected]> wrote: > Coincidence... same here! Especially V4 motorcycles, because then there is > no suck. > > -Kurt > > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Allen Thomas <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> That is why I ride motorcycles! >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Kurt Nolte <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> You can, but then they start to suck in the bottom end. Scooter CVT >>> tuning is about moving the suck around until you can live with it. >>> >>> -Kurt >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Allen Thomas <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> You do know you can change the weights and pully sizes in a CV to tune >>>> it for more top end? A buddy of mine has built some pretty radical >>>> scooters. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Kurt Nolte <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Increased sure, but perhaps not greatly. There's only so much 12hp can >>>>> do, and the gearing in a small scooter CVT SUCKS for speed. >>>>> >>>>> I do admit that jumping to 400 was probably a bit of a stretch. I >>>>> pulled that number out as the next readily available scooter size I could >>>>> think of. >>>>> >>>>> -Kurt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Allen Thomas <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> 400CC Seriously?? A Ninja 250 can do 90 stock. In an super >>>>>> aerodynamic shell, top speed would be greatly increased. They use that >>>>>> design in electrothons. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Kurt Nolte <[email protected] >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Considering the average 150cc scooter mill will barely do highway >>>>>>> speeds with a scooter, probably not Allen. Maybe a 400cc scooter engine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Kurt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Allen Thomas <[email protected] >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think something like this with a 150CC scooter motor/swingarm >>>>>>>> setup could easily do 100 MPG and probably do highway speeds. I'd >>>>>>>> like to >>>>>>>> make one that has leaning steering as a prototype then race it at the >>>>>>>> track. Then eventually build a larger one, maybe a tandem using a >>>>>>>> GL1500 engine/swingarm due to the reverse gear. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.blueskydsn.com/kit_aero.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Kurt Nolte < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wait, WHAT? 51/48 (Prius) mileage figures versus 25/35 (Camry) >>>>>>>>> mileage figures don't justify a $3k price difference? Not even full >>>>>>>>> $3k if >>>>>>>>> you're comparing base to base, closer to $2k. Even in the top trims >>>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>> paying only $5k more for the Prius versus a standard Camry and $1.5k >>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>> versus a top trim Camry Hybrid (40/38, demonstrating the benefits of >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> Kammback apples to apples). A base Camry hybrid (43/39) actually >>>>>>>>> costs $2k >>>>>>>>> MORE than a base Prius. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You're also forgetting that Civic hybrids don't provide as much of >>>>>>>>> a mileage lift(44/47 vs 30/39, so a 50%/20% increase), they are >>>>>>>>> perennial >>>>>>>>> underperformers in the mileage department (because of the difference >>>>>>>>> between IMA and Synergy), and command a significant price premium >>>>>>>>> (+$6k, or >>>>>>>>> +33%) over a standard Civic. This is versus the Prius/Camry values of >>>>>>>>> +104%/+37% for a +8% price bump. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, Toyota wanted something unique to market a new idea. Yes, >>>>>>>>> marketing got on board and pushed HARD. But the basic shape of the >>>>>>>>> Prius >>>>>>>>> was selected as a blend between aerodynamic performance and usable >>>>>>>>> cargo >>>>>>>>> space. And of course it is a perennial complaint of engineers that >>>>>>>>> accountants and marketing designers took their great ideas and ruined >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>> But the core design of the Prius is still a solidly workable balance >>>>>>>>> between aero and ergo, and it has retained its excellent mileage >>>>>>>>> figures >>>>>>>>> despite getting heavier, more powerful and more tricked out with each >>>>>>>>> generation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I like rooting for an underdog, but not one that's knowingly >>>>>>>>> bullshitting me and we both know it. I'd readily believe 40-50mpg, >>>>>>>>> but the >>>>>>>>> aero just isn't there on the three wheeler to make 80 realistic. >>>>>>>>> Especially >>>>>>>>> not with an engine that's probably a generation out of date without >>>>>>>>> all the >>>>>>>>> trick goodies rolling out with the modern fuel sippers (DI, Forced >>>>>>>>> induction, high compression, etc). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Kurt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying that the car isn't aerodynamic, I just don't think >>>>>>>>>> that it was the primary driver of the styling. #1 was to make it >>>>>>>>>> unique so >>>>>>>>>> that buyers could signal their concern for energy conservation to >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> drivers. Look at the Honda Civic hybrid, cars sitting on lots that >>>>>>>>>> nobody >>>>>>>>>> wanted, meanwhile there was a waiting list for the Prius. Why? >>>>>>>>>> Because the >>>>>>>>>> civic hybrid looked like every other civic on the road and didn't >>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>> hybridy enough. I think the marketing and accounting depts held the >>>>>>>>>> engineering dept back on the Prius or it would have, should have, >>>>>>>>>> achieved >>>>>>>>>> much better numbers. As it is the Prius doesn't get enough better >>>>>>>>>> mileage >>>>>>>>>> than the Camry to justify the cost difference. I guess what I'm >>>>>>>>>> trying to >>>>>>>>>> say is that I'm disappointed that the Prius didn't achieve better >>>>>>>>>> with all >>>>>>>>>> of Toyota's resources behind it. In that one aspect the Elio has a >>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>> chance because it's a smaller company willing to take bigger risks >>>>>>>>>> with its >>>>>>>>>> image. I agree that 84mpg is a hell of a long shot but we all like >>>>>>>>>> to root >>>>>>>>>> for the underdog, right? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -Kyle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Allen Thomas < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kyle, if the aerodynamics were done for aethetics then why do >>>>>>>>>>> all hybrids, and most new vehicles have the basic shape, K-back or >>>>>>>>>>> kammback >>>>>>>>>>> design? Remember the Prius was the first mass produced Hybrid and >>>>>>>>>>> the Honda >>>>>>>>>>> that came out shortly thereafter looked almost identical. >>>>>>>>>>> Supposedly its Cg >>>>>>>>>>> is .26. Also the Honda Insight had a 1 Liter motor and could only >>>>>>>>>>> get MPG >>>>>>>>>>> into the high 60s. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Kyle Munz <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Prius is constrained by being a 4door sedan, plus it weighs >>>>>>>>>>>> tons more. I'm also not convinced that the engineers were tasked >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> making the most efficient vehicle, but rather a vehicle that >>>>>>>>>>>> seemed more >>>>>>>>>>>> fuel efficient than the competition and stood out with unique >>>>>>>>>>>> styling so >>>>>>>>>>>> that their drivers could appear to be part of *the solution* >>>>>>>>>>>> rather than *the problem*. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Kyle >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Allen Thomas < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If a Prius can't get any where near 80 mpg then I doubt this >>>>>>>>>>>>> will. I have to think Toyota has a wind tunnel and highly >>>>>>>>>>>>> experienced >>>>>>>>>>>>> engineers. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Allen Thomas >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> . >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. 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