The Listmeister wrote: > > >I think the best advice I could give is that you guys leaven the > >politics (and religion, which is a kind of politics, in't it?) with > >some less incendiary topics every now and then. >
And John G. responded: > Hmm, well thanks ... but I scarcely think it's the leavening, so much > as the kneading, that's awry. > > > If bigots pretend to be saying things they aren't and not > understanding things they are, we have a turd not a loaf. > I think also that one should be clear about means and ends here. Free speech is not an end in itself, but a means to an end, of open exchange of ideas in a tolerant atmosphere. And as everyone here is aware, there are limit cases for free speech even in a country like the US (the classic case being shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater). And when free speech is used to undermine rather than promote the end of a tolerant atmosphere, it is no long free speech; it is harassment, or aimless hostility, or something similar, and its goal is to silence rather than promote the exchange of opinions. Mark has stated that he did not realize that he is a voter, that this list is a democracy, etc. etc. What he is missing is that this is a community, and each member of this community bears a certain minimal obligation to other members to maintain an atmosphere conducive to discussion. Free speech ceases to be such when the purpose or result of its misuse or abuse is to create an atmosphere that is intolerable for other members of a community. That is unquestionably what has happened here, and the proof is the list's dwindling membership and participation. That is simply not the sign of a healthy community. It goes without saying that dissent and even heated exchanges are part of an open and tolerant environment. The line may be hard to draw in specific instances (for instance, accusing another member during a heated exchange of engaging in sex with barnyard animals is probably over the line, but we could debate that, and of course if empirical evidence shows that the allegation is true, it would have to be allowed). But that is clearly not what is at issue here. It is rather that one member has chosen to play games with the list, and use it as a vehicle for posting what can only be characterized as hate-mongering messages. And he has just played more games when repeatedly asked to desist. I will be looking into setting up another list shortly, and make some kind of announcement about it when it is set up. Everyone here now will be welcome to join, save the one member that has made this step necessary by refusing to accept correction. John M. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Persons posting messages to not_honyaku assume all responsibility for their messages. The list owner does not review messages prior to posting, and accepts no responsibility for the content of messages posted. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
