Not having the will to resist a good Google search, I came across this
variation which I haven't heard before (American).
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/old-time-music/midi/005200.MID
No accreditation for the extra "fiddly bits".
I had no idea (back in '73) that I was learning such a "new" tune :-) and,
I'm sure, there's not one piper here who has never played it at some stage.
I agree that such a well-known tune would have been published well before
1964 had it been around.
This is a very interesting thread.
When it appeared in the NSP tunebook, did it come about from "oh I know a
good one" or are there any indications as to an older date/source etc. 1964
isn't that long ago to some of us.
Colin Hill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gibbons, John" <[email protected]>
To: "Alan Corkett" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:40 PM
Subject: [NSP] Re: Jimmy Allen
If the tune was not recorded pre 1974 (it seems), or known to be
published pre 1964,
then to assume 'it has been around for ever' is a bit of a long shot.
It doesn't appear in any of the sources on Farne, so if old it may still
be a recent import to the NE.
If it were an old NE tune I would expect to see it in Vickers or
somewhere. It isn't.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Corkett [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 15 January 2009 13:35
To: NSP LIST
Subject: [NSP] Re: Jimmy Allen
Dear Pipers
I forwarded an extract of the problem about sources to the EFDSS library
-
here is the reply I received.
Regards
Alan Corkett
-----Original Message-----
From: Elaine Bradtke [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 15 January 2009 11:19
To: [email protected] >> Alan Corkett
Subject: Re: Fw: Jimmy Allen
The CDM vol. 6 was published in 1964. We don't seem to have an earlier
version of it, and nothing in manuscript form. The recordings we have of
it don't date back that far either. It would be interesting to see if
it's in Peter Kennedy's collection - perhaps you could check with the
National Sound Archive,0207-589 6603
or Topic Records, who are producing a retrospective series based on his
collection.
Tony Engle
email: [email protected]
0207-263 1240
The Northumbrian connection appears to have come from the name.
I checked the Fiddler's Companion - a reasonably reliable if slightly
North American biased source:
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/JIG_JM.htm#JIMMY_ALLEN
JIMMY ALLEN. AKA and see "Jamie Allen," "Reel of Tullochgorum." English,
Scottish, American, Polka or March. England, Northumberland. USA, New
England. G Major. Standard tuning. AABB. Northumbrian musician Jamie
Allen (1734-1810) was a famous small pipes player whose name is
associated with this tune. Allen's father Will (1704-1779) was perhaps a
pipemaker and was River Warden of the Coquet. His wife, Jimmy's mother,
was a gypsy, and the elder Allen associated much with her folk. Son
Jimmy (or Jamie) was the subject of two biographies, largely fanciful,
and it is hard to determine the facts of his life. It is said he was at
various times piper to the Duchess of Northumberland, enlisted in the
army, and a fugitive from justice. At any rate, he was highly regarded
by his contemporaries as a musician and is thought to have played the
Northumbrian smallpipes, Border pipes, and Union (uilleann) pipes.
English/Scottish versions are found under the "Jamie" title, American
appear often as "Jimmy." The melody is popular in English sessions in
modern times, although considered to be somewhat of a 'beginner's tune'.
Miller & Perron (101 Polkas), 1978; No. 52. Miller & Perron (New England
Fiddlers Repertoire), 1983; No. 63.
Maddeningly, he doesn't give his source for the historical information.
We don't have Miller & Perron 101 Polkas, so it may be from there.
Another diverting, if not necessarily enlightening discussion of the
tune is here:http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/6354
Sorry we can't trace it back any further. It sounds like it's been
around forever. . .
Dear Malcolm
A Happy New Year to you!
The Northumbrian Pipers Society are busy discussing the origins of the
tune Jimmy Allen which was published in EFDSS CDM6 in 1964.
I felt I might have learnt this tune in the 1950s as an easy/beginners
tune, but not if it was not published till 1964, unless picked up
aurally
Can you throw any light on this mystery.
Regards
Alan Corkett
NB. Barry Say who edits their NPS magazine wrote this (an extract...)
As an exercise, I tried to think of old tunes which would serve as
initial targets for beginner pipers.
In the course of this, Jimmy Allan sprang to mind, but I found that it
did not appear in the Peacock Collection, Bewick Book, or the Vickers
collection and to my surprise, it did not appear in the first edition
of
the Northumbrian Pipers' Tunebook (1936) nor in the Fiddler's Tune
book(1951/54) edited by Peter Kennedy.
Peter Kennedy was a pivotal figure in the traditional music scene in
the
1950s and 60s and worked extensively in the North-East and is probably
the person most responsible for making the music of the North-East of
England available to the whole of England in that period. I do not
intend this as either praise or criticism.
I had always assumed from its name that it was part of the
Northumbrian
tradition, but I am beginning to suspect that we have been deceived by
our own willingness to believe that which seems convenient.
The tune as we know it appears in the EFDSS Community dance manual
volume 6 on a page with two tunes composed in 1961. The copyright
dates
would indicate that it was published in 1964 or 1967. I cannot lay my
hands on my copy of this but I am sure that this publication was
certainly part of Peter Kennedy's sphere of influence, but the fact
that
it does not appear in the first two volumes of the Fiddlers Tune book,
would indicate that he was unaware of it in 1951 and had found it by
1964.
The Reel of Tullochgorum is almost certainly the same tune but is
reckoned to be in D. It was published by Ian Powrie, apparently in the
late 1950s and it seems that he claimed that it was a traditional tune
which he had collected. Ian lived in Perthshire - so that is the first
place we would suspect.
Now we come to the important link. Ian Powrie lead a Scottish Dance
Band
which appeared on the 'White Heather Club', a television program which
I
know was available in the North East (of England), because I saw it.
So - unless someone can come up with some other evidence - the best
story I can come up with is that:
----------------
Ian Powrie collected the 'Reel of Tullochgorum' in North-East
Scotland.
A Northumbrian musician picked it up through the White Heather Club
(or
some other route)
It was adopted by the Northumbrian piping community who would insist
on
playing it in nominal 'G'.
-------------------------------
I have mentioned some of this to Matt Seattle, who, at the time I
contacted him, had no recollection of finding Jimmy Allan or any
related
tunes in his researches.
--
Elaine Bradtke
Assistant Librarian
VWML
English Folk Dance and Song Society
2 Regent's Park Road
London NW1 7AY
tel. 0207 485 2206 ext. 33 Fax 0207 284 0523
[email protected]
http://www.efdss.org
A Company Registered in England Limited by Guarantee Number 2997142
Registered Charity Number 305999
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