Popapoms would be the Australian version then? Tim On 21 Jun 2011, at 14:44, Dave S wrote:
> Colin, that would be popapoms then, er, hope there are no cheerleaders > affronted > > Dave > > On 6/21/2011 3:31 PM, cwhill wrote: >> So popadoms then :) >> >> Colin Hill >> >> >> On 21/06/2011 12:18, Gibbons, John wrote: >>> >>> >>> When I was in a choir, a composer of a piece we'd commissioned explained >>> legato, poco staccato and staccato respectively as pah, pom, and pop. >>> >>> For NSP, pah is a no-no, as notes need definite ends. >>> So the spectrum we work between is somewhere between pom and pop. >>> Occasional ventures into staccatissimo, as in Meggy's Foot, need a pip >>> instead. >>> >>> But generally the notes should come out like peas, not lentils. >>> >>> John >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of [email protected] >>> Sent: 21 June 2011 09:45 >>> To: [email protected] >>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] >>> Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead >>> >>> Oops, outlook tells me I've already sent a reply. I wonder what it said... >>> >>> Barry, et al. >>> >>>> May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary >>>> >>>> http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm >>>> >>> Thanks, this is very interesting but unfortunately reminds me that >>> dictionaries are not infallible. (I have been working as a professional >>> translator since 1974). >>> >>> And indeed that musicians and lexicographers cannot always agree on the >>> precise meaning of the terminology they use. >>> >>> For example, here: http://www.winterkonzerte.de/fachbegriffe.html >>> >>> I found: "spiccato: Deutlich, abgesetzt, mit gestoßenen Noten (Bogentechnik >>> bei Streichinstrumenten). >>> staccato: Gestoßen, kurz, abgehackt. Gegensatz:-> legato" >>> >>> The terminology here is very vague, and doesn't explain the fundamental >>> difference between staccato and spiccato, i.e. that staccato stays on the >>> string and spiccato bounces. This is further confused by the fact that >>> French-speakers tend to call any bouncing stroke "sautillé" even though >>> this term more strictly applies to the rapid bouncing of the wood of the >>> bow unassisted, as it were, and is related to tremolo. "sautillé" works >>> well on fast semiquavers, spiccato can be used on relatively slow notes. It >>> is performed with the upper arm and the bow reaches and leaves the string >>> like an aircraft landing and immediatly taking off again or like a stone >>> skimmed across water. >>> >>> Back to Dolmetsch: it does give "staccare (Italian) to detach, to separate >>> each note" as the basic meaning. Then things get complicated. For example, >>> I can assure you that détaché means what I described in my previous >>> posting, as also found here: http://www.violinonline.com/bowstrokes.htm >>> "Détaché indicates smooth, separate bow strokes should be used for each >>> note (it does not mean detached or disconnected). Notes are of equal value, >>> and are produced with an even, seamless stroke with no variation in >>> pressure." >>> >>> Not because I necessarily trust this source (for example, it makes martelé >>> and staccato sound like the same thing) but having been trained in >>> Luxembourg (where the system and terminology are very much based on the >>> French model) and Liège - and sometimes by French-speaking teachers - this >>> is what I have learnt that the expressions mean. >>> >>> Back to Dolmetsch again: it implies that staccato is the same thing as >>> gestoßen (German), détaché (French), piqué (French). >>> >>> Gestoßen certainly means détaché but piqué doesn't; it means something more >>> like staccatissimo. >>> >>> So I wouldn't rely too much on dictionaries (for example, what is the >>> relevance of the reference to Monteverdi's use of pizzicato in this >>> context?) >>> >>> >>>> Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and >>>> never for >>>> a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters. >>> >>> Quite rightly. But it does have a technical meaning for string players. >>> >>> Sorry if I sound like a know-all, but the above is merely a distillation of >>> what I have gathered over several decades to be the consensus among >>> practising string players as opposed to lexicographers and musicologists >>> and is offered FWIW. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Chris (wer übt, hat's nötig) Birch >>> >>> >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 >> >> > >
