I'm salaried, and OT doesn't count, until it's too much OT. But, there's also the opportunity costs involved, and not just for me. Down time is not productive time, and it's far more than just my time at stake.
Kurt On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 14:56, Ray <[email protected]> wrote: > Do you get paid hourly or are you salaried? If salary, they're paying you > anyway. Even if hourly, and you get OT, it's not really a burdened rate. They > don't pay more for your insurance if you work 40 or 80 hours. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kurt Buff [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:49 AM > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: Re: OT: desktop network switches > > I have backed up my words with real world examples. > > As I stated before, I have lots of experience with folks creating layer 2 > loops with small unmanaged switches over the past 9+ years at my position. If > it costs even one hour of my time tracking these down for each incident (and > it's usually more than that), the money spent is well worth it to both me and > the business. > > It happens about twice a year, and sometimes more frequently. At a fully > burdened hourly rate of approximately $75.00/hour just for my time, not to > mention the time of all of the people affected who can't do their jobs for at > least an hour at a time, it is stunningly bad business *NOT* to have pulled > sufficient cable and bought sufficient ports to support the requirements of > the environment. > > Kurt > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 07:57, Andrew S. Baker <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>Notice that I did say "Required? Sometimes." >> And then proceeded to articulate yourself right into a corner. >> >>>>You and Andrew, however, sometimes over-interpret my words. >> Use less words, and use them in the same manner as the rest of the >> planet, and you'll find them harder to "over-interpret"[1]. >> And back up your words with real-world examples, and others will find >> more opportunity for agreement. >> >> ASB (Find me online via About.Me) >> Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage... >> >> [1] I won't even ask... >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Kurt Buff <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Life *is* usually as cut and dried as I make it out to be. You and >>> Andrew, however, sometimes over-interpret my words. >>> >>> Notice that I did say "Required? Sometimes." >>> >>> In particular, my time as a sysadmin is almost always worth more than >>> the difference between a cheap 5/8 port switch and a couple of ports >>> on, and some cabling to reach, a managed switch. >>> >>> Kurt >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 07:15, Jeff Steward <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > Life is rarely so cut and dried as you make it out to be. As with >>> > any decision, there are multiple inputs and risk assessments to be >>> > made and sometimes, using an inexpensive unmanaged switch is the right >>> > choice. >>> > -Jeff Steward >>> > >>> > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Kurt Buff <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Required? Sometimes. >>> >> >>> >> More expensive up front? Yes. >>> >> >>> >> Valid or reasonable? I disagree. >>> >> >>> >> IMHO, being forced to use these tiny unmanaged switches shows a >>> >> decided lack of foresight on someone's part, and a lack of >>> >> understanding of their larger costs. >>> >> >>> >> Unless, perhaps, you're temporizing until a complete wireless >>> >> solution is being readied. :) >>> >> >>> >> Kurt >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 02:59, Andrew S. Baker <[email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > "Install extra cabling" is a solution that has greater expense, >>> >> > and requires far more permission that "install unmanaged switch" >>> >> > in most circumstances. >>> >> > There are plenty of valid scenarios where you will not have the >>> >> > opportunity to add more network drops to a location, and for >>> >> > which the temporary or permanent deployment of unmanaged >>> >> > switches will be entirely reasonable. >>> >> > >>> >> > ASB (Find me online via About.Me) Exploiting Technology for >>> >> > Business Advantage... >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 10:49 PM, James Hill >>> >> > <[email protected]> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I'm with Kurt. Unmanaged switches are just trouble. Do it >>> >> >> properly and install extra cabling. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Unmanaged switches have a habit of multiplying. I've been >>> >> >> caught out one too many times by a hidden one under a desk >>> >> >> somewhere, usually when imaging an entire floor with multicast >>> >> >> or something when I don't have the time for trouble. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I've even seen one of these switches go nuts and flood a core >>> >> >> switch so much it brought the network to its knees. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> >> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:[email protected]] >>> >> >> Sent: Sunday, 6 February 2011 5:19 AM >>> >> >> To: NT System Admin Issues >>> >> >> Subject: Re: OT: desktop network switches >>> >> >> >>> >> >> It's not just one mistake. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I don't know what it is about my user population, but at least >>> >> >> a couple of times a year, and sometimes more often, I have to >>> >> >> go chasing down some idiot (usually a software developer or >>> >> >> hardware engineer) who has connected a little switch to itself, >>> >> >> or to another little switch. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I'm really tired of it. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Kurt >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 05:47, Ray <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> > So because someone made a mistake you're condemning using them? >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >>> >> >> > From: Kurt Buff [mailto:[email protected]] >>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:45 PM >>> >> >> > To: NT System Admin Issues >>> >> >> > Subject: Re: OT: desktop network switches >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Don't. Just don't. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Pull another run of cable if you have to. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Desktop switches are just wrong. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > I speak from much experience here. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Just last month, we shuffled a bunch of folks around, and the >>> >> >> > facilities guy was moving PCs and printers, and noticed that >>> >> >> > there was a loose cable attached to a 5-port switch. So, not >>> >> >> > knowing what else to do with it, he plugged it into the 5 >>> >> >> > port switch. Which meant that both ends of the cable were in >>> >> >> > the same dumb, unmanaged, switch. >>> >> >> > That's your basic layer2 loop, right there. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > It killed performance for lots of people, until I tracked it down. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > I've had this happen so many times with stupid 5 and 8 port >>> >> >> > switches that if I could rip them all out I would do so in >>> >> >> > less time than it takes to write about it. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > But, we now have so many of them, because our wiring is so >>> >> >> > sparse, that I can't. Yet. It's a major line item in the IT >>> >> >> > CAPEX budget for next year. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Kurt >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:00, John Aldrich >>> >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> >> One of my users just claimed an unused laser printer for his >>> >> >> >> office (Acct. >>> >> >> >> Manager) that has a network port on it as well as the usual USB. >>> >> >> >> He'd >>> >> >> >> like to be able to network it so he can print to it from the >>> >> >> >> AS/400. >>> >> >> >> What do you guys recommend for a small (4-5 port) network switch? >>> >> >> >> To anyone who wants to know, this is for real, looking for >>> >> >> >> recommendations for a RIGHT NOW purchase, not "next time." >>> >> >> >> :-) >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ >> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to [email protected] >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to [email protected] with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
