Seems as if you should have enough evidence to justify the expenditure of funds for additional wiring drops. X= Hours lost due to unproductive users, and misallocation of your time. Y=Cost of expanding cabling plant. If X>Y you win, pretty cut and dried.
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Kurt Buff <[email protected]> wrote: > I have backed up my words with real world examples. > > As I stated before, I have lots of experience with folks creating > layer 2 loops with small unmanaged switches over the past 9+ years at > my position. If it costs even one hour of my time tracking these down > for each incident (and it's usually more than that), the money spent > is well worth it to both me and the business. > > It happens about twice a year, and sometimes more frequently. At a > fully burdened hourly rate of approximately $75.00/hour just for my > time, not to mention the time of all of the people affected who can't > do their jobs for at least an hour at a time, it is stunningly bad > business *NOT* to have pulled sufficient cable and bought sufficient > ports to support the requirements of the environment. > > Kurt > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 07:57, Andrew S. Baker <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>Notice that I did say "Required? Sometimes." > > And then proceeded to articulate yourself right into a corner. > > > >>>You and Andrew, however, sometimes over-interpret my words. > > Use less words, and use them in the same manner as the rest of the > planet, > > and you'll find them harder to "over-interpret"[1]. > > And back up your words with real-world examples, and others will find > more > > opportunity for agreement. > > > > ASB (Find me online via About.Me) > > Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage... > > > > [1] I won't even ask... > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Kurt Buff <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Life *is* usually as cut and dried as I make it out to be. You and > >> Andrew, however, sometimes over-interpret my words. > >> > >> Notice that I did say "Required? Sometimes." > >> > >> In particular, my time as a sysadmin is almost always worth more than > >> the difference between a cheap 5/8 port switch and a couple of ports > >> on, and some cabling to reach, a managed switch. > >> > >> Kurt > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 07:15, Jeff Steward <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Life is rarely so cut and dried as you make it out to be. As with any > >> > decision, there are multiple inputs and risk assessments to be made > and > >> > sometimes, using an inexpensive unmanaged switch is the right choice. > >> > -Jeff Steward > >> > > >> > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Kurt Buff <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Required? Sometimes. > >> >> > >> >> More expensive up front? Yes. > >> >> > >> >> Valid or reasonable? I disagree. > >> >> > >> >> IMHO, being forced to use these tiny unmanaged switches shows a > >> >> decided lack of foresight on someone's part, and a lack of > >> >> understanding of their larger costs. > >> >> > >> >> Unless, perhaps, you're temporizing until a complete wireless > solution > >> >> is being readied. :) > >> >> > >> >> Kurt > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 02:59, Andrew S. Baker <[email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > "Install extra cabling" is a solution that has greater expense, and > >> >> > requires > >> >> > far more permission that "install unmanaged switch" in most > >> >> > circumstances. > >> >> > There are plenty of valid scenarios where you will not have the > >> >> > opportunity > >> >> > to add more network drops to a location, and for which the > temporary > >> >> > or > >> >> > permanent deployment of unmanaged switches will be entirely > >> >> > reasonable. > >> >> > > >> >> > ASB (Find me online via About.Me) > >> >> > Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage... > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 10:49 PM, James Hill > >> >> > <[email protected]> > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I'm with Kurt. Unmanaged switches are just trouble. Do it > properly > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> install extra cabling. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Unmanaged switches have a habit of multiplying. I've been caught > >> >> >> out > >> >> >> one > >> >> >> too many times by a hidden one under a desk somewhere, usually > when > >> >> >> imaging > >> >> >> an entire floor with multicast or something when I don't have the > >> >> >> time > >> >> >> for > >> >> >> trouble. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I've even seen one of these switches go nuts and flood a core > switch > >> >> >> so > >> >> >> much it brought the network to its knees. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, 6 February 2011 5:19 AM > >> >> >> To: NT System Admin Issues > >> >> >> Subject: Re: OT: desktop network switches > >> >> >> > >> >> >> It's not just one mistake. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I don't know what it is about my user population, but at least a > >> >> >> couple > >> >> >> of > >> >> >> times a year, and sometimes more often, I have to go chasing down > >> >> >> some > >> >> >> idiot > >> >> >> (usually a software developer or hardware engineer) who has > >> >> >> connected a > >> >> >> little switch to itself, or to another little switch. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I'm really tired of it. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Kurt > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 05:47, Ray <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> > So because someone made a mistake you're condemning using them? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> >> > From: Kurt Buff [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >> >> > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:45 PM > >> >> >> > To: NT System Admin Issues > >> >> >> > Subject: Re: OT: desktop network switches > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Don't. Just don't. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Pull another run of cable if you have to. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Desktop switches are just wrong. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I speak from much experience here. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Just last month, we shuffled a bunch of folks around, and the > >> >> >> > facilities > >> >> >> > guy was moving PCs and printers, and noticed that there was a > >> >> >> > loose > >> >> >> > cable > >> >> >> > attached to a 5-port switch. So, not knowing what else to do > with > >> >> >> > it, > >> >> >> > he > >> >> >> > plugged it into the 5 port switch. Which meant that both ends of > >> >> >> > the > >> >> >> > cable > >> >> >> > were in the same dumb, unmanaged, switch. > >> >> >> > That's your basic layer2 loop, right there. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > It killed performance for lots of people, until I tracked it > down. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I've had this happen so many times with stupid 5 and 8 port > >> >> >> > switches > >> >> >> > that if I could rip them all out I would do so in less time than > >> >> >> > it > >> >> >> > takes to > >> >> >> > write about it. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > But, we now have so many of them, because our wiring is so > sparse, > >> >> >> > that > >> >> >> > I can't. Yet. It's a major line item in the IT CAPEX budget for > >> >> >> > next > >> >> >> > year. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Kurt > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:00, John Aldrich > >> >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> >> One of my users just claimed an unused laser printer for his > >> >> >> >> office > >> >> >> >> (Acct. > >> >> >> >> Manager) that has a network port on it as well as the usual > USB. > >> >> >> >> He'd > >> >> >> >> like to be able to network it so he can print to it from the > >> >> >> >> AS/400. > >> >> >> >> What do you guys recommend for a small (4-5 port) network > switch? > >> >> >> >> To anyone who wants to know, this is for real, looking for > >> >> >> >> recommendations for a RIGHT NOW purchase, not "next time." :-) > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Thanks! > > > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > > > --- > > To manage subscriptions click here: > > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > > or send an email to [email protected] > > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to [email protected] > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to [email protected] with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
