Joe, You asked: What makes NVO3 different from any other network?
Answer: Some NVEs, especially the NVE implemented on server, don’t support PIM or other multicast mechanism. They just encapsulate the data packets from VMs with an outer header. The “UNIQUE needs of NVO3” is to have the mechanism for NVEs (especially the ones that don’t support multicast) to map multicast traffic from VMs (users/applications) to proper Outer Header. E.g. if NVE doesn’t support multicast (PIM), what outer destination address should be. All we need is to differentiate multicast messages originated from users/applications from the infrastructure multicast at the introduction section. Not intended to describe in detail of the Infrastructure multicast. I don’t understand how RFC3819 (Advice for Internet Subnetwork Designs) can be used. RFC 3819 talks about MTU, TCP/link retransmission, etc. Linda Dunbar From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 2017年1月30日 12:42 To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe <[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]>; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]> Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau <[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework Note: most of what you want to say about multicast has already been observed in RFC 3819. The discussion in section 1.1 should refer to LANE (RFC1577) as an example. However, before we get down into this in detail, I have to ask: what makes NVO3 different from any other network? This WG doesn't need one doc for everything an NVO3 network needs that a network already needs. The docs should focus on the UNIQUE needs of NVO3 or ways in which NVO3 provides multicast that are not available in generic networks. The rest of the discussion of the need for multicast, etc., ought to cite existing RFCs. Joe On 1/30/2017 10:35 AM, Joe Touch wrote: Hi, Linda, This isn't correct grammar. Do you want to say: Infrastructure multicast is a capability needed by networking services, such as Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. Joe On 1/30/2017 10:21 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote: Joe, Are you ok with the following? Infrastructure multicast are for networking services, such as Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. Linda From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 2017年1月30日 12:03 To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework I'd suggest "networking services", only to avoid the implication that these are all L3. Joe On 1/30/2017 9:58 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote: Joe, Do you mean the following? Infrastructure multicast are originated by network services for the purpose of establishing network topology and reachability, such as Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. Linda From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 2017年1月30日 11:49 To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework Hi, Linda, These are not all "network protocols", as I noted already. It might be useful to describe them all as "services", though. I.e., to replate "network protocols" with "services" (or maybe even "networking services" - to distinguish them from OS services, but not give the impression they belong at the "network" layer). Joe On 1/30/2017 8:17 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote: Joe, Thank you very much for articulating a more precise definition. How about this: Infrastructure multicast are originated by network protocols for the purpose of establishing network topology and reachability, such as Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. Application-specific multicast traffic are originated and consumed by user applications. Linda From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 2017年1月27日 18:20 To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework On 1/27/2017 4:03 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: [Linda] Infrastructure multicast are originated by network nodes for the purpose of establishing network topology and reachability, such as Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. + Also, how would you classify protocols like OSPF, PIM, VRRP etc that are dependent on multicast? Even if you do not consider them relevant for this framework, perhaps you should briefly mention them? [Linda] I don’t think we can enumerate all network protocols (many of them use multicast). The purpose is to differentiate multicast originated by network nodes and the multicast originated by applications. DHCP and mDNS are applications ("L7"). Network nodes don't originate anything; their protocol layers do (link, network, transport, application). It might be useful to focus on the difference being "network infrastructure" vs "user applications" as the better way to describe the difference. I don't think "network nodes vs. applications" is clear or meaningful. Joe
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