On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Linda Dunbar <[email protected]> wrote: > Joe, > > > > Thanks for your suggestion. > > > > I added the following sentence in the Section 3 (Multicast Mechanisms in > networks that use NVO3): > > > > What makes NVO3 different from any other network is that some NVEs, > especially the NVE implemented on server, might not support PIM or other > multicast mechanisms. They might just encapsulate the data packets from VMs > with an outer header. Therefore, it is important for networks using NVO3 to > have mechanisms for NVEs, especially the ones that do not support multicast, > to map multicast traffic from VMs (users/applications) to proper Outer > Header, e.g. figuring out the outer destination address if NVE does not > support multicast (e.g. PIM). >
PIM support is needed at the NVE only if any of the VMs is a multicast source which is usually a rare situation. Otherwise MLD/IGMP Proxy would normally need to be supported at the NVE level. Regards, Behcet > > > > > If it is Okay with you, I will upload the draft. > > > > Thanks, Linda > > > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 2017年1月30日 14:02 > > > To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe > <[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]>; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]> > Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau > <[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework > > > > > > > > On 1/30/2017 11:38 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > > Joe, > > > > You asked: > > What makes NVO3 different from any other network? > > > > Answer: Some NVEs, especially the NVE implemented on server, don’t support > PIM or other multicast mechanism. They just encapsulate the data packets > from VMs with an outer header. > > Then the requirement would be: > NVO3 does not require native multicast, but does require supported > multicast capability. > > > The “UNIQUE needs of NVO3” is to have the mechanism for NVEs (especially > the ones that don’t support multicast) to map multicast traffic from VMs > (users/applications) to proper Outer Header. E.g. if NVE doesn’t support > multicast (PIM), what outer destination address should be. > > > That needs to be explained in detail, especially for ways to support > multicast without PIM. > > > All we need is to differentiate multicast messages originated from > users/applications from the infrastructure multicast at the introduction > section. Not intended to describe in detail of the Infrastructure multicast. > > > > I don’t understand how RFC3819 (Advice for Internet Subnetwork Designs) can > be used. RFC 3819 talks about MTU, TCP/link retransmission, etc. > > > See sections 5 and 6. > > Joe > > > > > > > Linda Dunbar > > > > > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 2017年1月30日 12:42 > To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe > <[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]>; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]> > Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau > <[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework > > > > Note: most of what you want to say about multicast has already been observed > in RFC 3819. > > The discussion in section 1.1 should refer to LANE (RFC1577) as an example. > > However, before we get down into this in detail, I have to ask: what makes > NVO3 different from any other network? > > This WG doesn't need one doc for everything an NVO3 network needs that a > network already needs. The docs should focus on the UNIQUE needs of NVO3 or > ways in which NVO3 provides multicast that are not available in generic > networks. > > The rest of the discussion of the need for multicast, etc., ought to cite > existing RFCs. > > Joe > > On 1/30/2017 10:35 AM, Joe Touch wrote: > > Hi, Linda, > > This isn't correct grammar. > > Do you want to say: > > Infrastructure multicast is a capability needed by networking services, such > as Address Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host > Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. > > Joe > > On 1/30/2017 10:21 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > > Joe, > > > > Are you ok with the following? > > > > Infrastructure multicast are for networking services, such as Address > Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host > Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. > > > > Linda > > > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 2017年1月30日 12:03 > To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe > <[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]>; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]> > Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau > <[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework > > > > I'd suggest "networking services", only to avoid the implication that these > are all L3. > > Joe > > > > On 1/30/2017 9:58 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > > Joe, > > > > Do you mean the following? > > > > Infrastructure multicast are originated by network services for the purpose > of establishing network topology and reachability, such as Address > Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host > Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. > > > > Linda > > > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 2017年1月30日 11:49 > To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe > <[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]>; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]> > Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau > <[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework > > > > Hi, Linda, > > These are not all "network protocols", as I noted already. > > It might be useful to describe them all as "services", though. > > I.e., to replate "network protocols" with "services" (or maybe even > "networking services" - to distinguish them from OS services, but not give > the impression they belong at the "network" layer). > > Joe > > > > On 1/30/2017 8:17 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > > Joe, > > > > Thank you very much for articulating a more precise definition. > > > > How about this: > > Infrastructure multicast are originated by network protocols for the purpose > of establishing network topology and reachability, such as Address > Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host > Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. > > > > Application-specific multicast traffic are originated and consumed by user > applications. > > Linda > > > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 2017年1月27日 18:20 > To: Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>; Olufemi Komolafe > <[email protected]>; Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]>; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) <[email protected]> > Cc: MBONED WG <[email protected]>; Truman Boyes <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; Williamson, Beau > <[email protected]>; Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [MBONED] NVO3 Multicast Framework > > > > > > > > On 1/27/2017 4:03 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > > [Linda] Infrastructure multicast are originated by network nodes for the > purpose of establishing network topology and reachability, such as Address > Resolution Protocol (ARP), Neighbor Discovery (ND), Dynamic Host > Configuration Protocol (DHCP), multicast Domain Name Server (mDNS), etc.. > > + Also, how would you classify protocols like OSPF, PIM, VRRP etc that are > dependent on multicast? Even if you do not consider them relevant for this > framework, perhaps you should briefly mention them? > > [Linda] I don’t think we can enumerate all network protocols (many of them > use multicast). The purpose is to differentiate multicast originated by > network nodes and the multicast originated by applications. > > DHCP and mDNS are applications ("L7"). > > Network nodes don't originate anything; their protocol layers do (link, > network, transport, application). > > It might be useful to focus on the difference being "network infrastructure" > vs "user applications" as the better way to describe the difference. I don't > think "network nodes vs. applications" is clear or meaningful. > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nvo3 mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
