Thanx for the help Kev. You helped me prove my point more effectively. Michael
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Michael Yellin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Goal Accomplished > Good, interesting analogy. Of course, I should point out 2 minor > problems. > > a) The State of California probably son't have a EULA with you which > states that you cannot share your water with anyone else...even if they > are piped to the same house. With certain broadband providers you have to > ensure that only you are the only user of your bandwidth. In other > words...sharing your bandwidth is a violation of your TOS and could result > in the termination of service. > > b) The State of California does not meter your use, so even if you pour it > to a large field and let it evaporate the state would not be able to > detect it unless inspectors casually observe you wasting their resources. > With broadband companies some do and will monitor your bandwidth usage and > can either drop your QoS to limit your use, cap your use at certain > amounts per month, or raise your bills. > > So there are some associated costs to the paid subscriber for providing an > open AP to you, whether intentional or not. It's best to ask before > using. Just because it's out there doesn't mean that you should exploit > it. > > > On Tue, 27 May 2003, Michael Yellin wrote: > > > > > > > Let me preface my comments by saying I generally don't watch the message > > list very closely, but for some reason, this caught my eye. I am also not a > > frequent commenter, so that may diminish my comments in your eyes, but, > > here goes anyway. > > > > I am Kinda in the legal field. While some things I agree with about the > > law, others I don't. However, h00man being 2, again, your analogy isn't on > > target. It isn't a matter or being able to reproduce them cost free, or if > > it will be wasted, and I guess according to you, if it will be wasted, then > > WHY CAN'T I HAVE IT. Simply, it's a matter of who is paying for it. The > > person who pays to raise the crops, maintain the tree, water it, whatever he > > has to do to keep it alive, is entitled to decide what happens with the > > tree, and it's fruits. > > > > Here is my attempt at an analogy. Here in California, and I assume many > > other states, residents must pay for their water. So, lets say I pay 50 > > bucks a month for all the water I can use, coming down the 4 inch pipe > > coming to my house. But, what if my neighbor, for what ever reason, decides > > that he is gonna tap into my line, and since I am already paying for the > > water, and he can easily "tap" into my line with out me knowing, and he > > figures I won't be paying anything extra, and since I haven't done anything > > to guard the pipe, even though I may easily do so, that he can siphon off > > just a couple of gallons a month, or week, or day. The fact remains, that > > someone is paying for that water, Me. Now truth be told, I may not care if > > he takes some of my water, heck, I might even set up a well in yard so > > everyone can take some water for free, but it should be my choice. Not the > > choice of someone else. And, if he does siphon off some of my water, with > > out my permission, he has "stolen" from me. If I use very little water, and > > he uses a lot of water, then most of my money, since I have paid for the > > water, has been stolen. But even if I use a hell of allot of water on my > > own, and he uses just the tiniest bit, he has stolen from me, just much > > less. Now, is stealing allot of money worse then stealing a little bit, > > well, stealing is stealing. The punishment should be different, but the > > crime has occurred. Is it ethical to take someone's paid for property, even > > though it doesn't cost him extra, and he can get as much as he needs no > > matter what, well the answer to that is NO, it is not ethical. Ethics > > aren't based on what happens to others, it is whether what you are doing, is > > right or wrong. What is right it to pay for what you receive, unless it is > > given away. What is wrong it getting something for free, from someone who > > either hasn't given it to you, or doesn't even know you have received it. > > > > Well, my .02. Hope no one minds. > > > > Michael > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "h00man being 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:05 AM > > Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Goal Accomplished > > > > > > > >Please consider your argument when someone drives away with your car or > > > your > > > >bike or your TV or stereo! > > > > > > I'm tired of this comparison of getting free things on digital things that > > > cost nothing to reproduce, to stealing actual hardware. > > > > > > The comparison just doesn't stand up. > > > > > > You could compare it to taking a fruit in a tree that isn't obviously > > isn't > > > going to get picked, instead of letting it fall to the ground, too. But > > > there's a grumpy old man who won't let anyone have them, falling rotten or > > > not. > > > > > > And then he calls you a thief. > > > > > > In any regular town, it may not be strictly legal, but the policemen will > > > gladly jump the fence and take the fruit too, if they can. And they > > > certainly won't arrest the twelve-year-old kid who took one. > > > > > > Software doesn't grow on trees, you say? Yes it does. Look at all the > > free > > > software you can get. > > > > > > The fruits, in fact, have now been successfully regulated, and are no > > longer > > > free, and you now will actually get taken to jail for taking one from the > > > market, hungry or not, children's prank or not. > > > > > > Laws are made to protect and increase the established wealth, and you are > > > just one more of those become poor and more unhappy in the process, > > whether > > > you realize it or not. > > > > > > -- > > > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > > > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > > > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ > > > > -- > > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ > > > > > -- > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
