Hi Aaron, Generally they will already have their own internal email server, but if they don't then they likely use their ISP as a mail provider. Perhaps they have a contract IT service that comes in every so often. Most clients will also already have their own website with mail and sometimes that is just where the mail stays. If all else fails it usually takes the form of pointing them in the right direction to a managed mail service. They can then phone up the mail provider and they take it from there. So whoever takes care of their IT needs day to day generally also takes care of their email for them.
If a client wants their own dedicated web server then we also direct them to create their own account with the fully managed hosting provider and we effectively become a web development firm only. The small cut you can make on hosting and email is generally not worth the hassle in my experience. Sure there is a small amount of hand holding through the process, but once that is done it is clear who the point of contact is. The way I see it email is not a web development issue but an IT infrastructure issue and therefore really we shouldn't need to delve into it. A "proper" systems admin who can concentrate on the task of maintaining servers is going to give the customer better service anyway in my opinion. It is all about limiting the number of hats you have to wear so your output can be focussed and precise. We are a web development firm and we don't stray into IT just like most IT people should really remove that " Web Development" page from their websites! :-) To be honest though the types of clients we currently serve are more corporate and government than small business, which means they have their own internal IT departments and sometimes a web editor/digital project manager which of course greatly eases this process. Cheers, Simon On 25 March 2010 10:00, Aaron Cooper <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Simon, > > > > Just a question on this even though we’re moving OT again: When you do a > dev that comes with hosting too, isn’t one of the client’s first “and”s > email too? > > > > Do you simply tell them that you only offer web hosting services and leave > them to it? Or do you aid with setting them up elsewhere? > > > > The reason I ask, is because everything you wrote is oh-so true. But I > can’t imagine helping set clients up email on another service just for email > would halt those sort of calls. > > > > A > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Simon Holywell > *Sent:* Thursday, 25 March 2010 10:46 p.m. > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [phpug] Re: Migrating a Domain Name > > > > Like everyone else is saying - keep your email and web servers separate. > Most clients will have their own (usually Exchange) mail servers internally > anyway. In my previous job we used to run a qMail/Dovecot server and if we > ever had to reboot the server or Rackspace had a power outage it was hell > with all the clients ringing in. > > > > Where I work now we do not touch email and it makes life so much simpler > and less stressful. I found that managing clients email accounts really ate > up development time. Every time they want to have a new forwarder, an out > of office message, setup a new user, delete a user, read their employees > email, forget their password, are getting too much spam, etc. They will > call you and interrupt your flow with "ultra urgent" mail changes. Even if > you give them a control panel to manage their own mail - they will forget > how to use it. > > > > If the server goes down you will be so inundated with calls you will not be > able think let alone get the server back up. > > > > I wouldn't go back to managing email again, ever! I let Google apps deal > with it for my own domains as it is so much simpler. > > > > On 24 March 2010 22:41, Bruce Clement <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have my primary domain's email on the free version of Google Apps, > and alias in my secondary domains (e.g. the one I'm sending this email > from). I've done the same for my fiancee, Tessa, on her domains and > have set up a couple of friends on Google Apps too. > > To me it's a wonderful solution, you can still use POP3 over SSL to > retrieve mail to your email client (although you do need to > occasionally check your SPAM folder), you automatically have a backup > for your mail in case you lose your local mailbox and everything > integrates really well. > > The setup is relatively painless. > > Bruce > > > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Aaron Cooper <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I've often thought about the same thing. Largely because it's relatively > > painless to move most websites as far as DNS goes, but email is a pain > and > > variable. Google Apps is obvously on the list of solutions. > > > > I have one new client who has moved host twice in 4 years - email > included, > > and looking again now. It would be a whole lot easier if email were > > centralised and decoupled from website (not tied to a particular host or > > developer). > > > > The only thing to remember is if you are on a system like cPanel, which > > includes email by default, you need to change the MX on the website host > so > > that internally generated email (contact forms) go to the right place. > They > > will otherwise default to the same account the site runs on, and fall > into a > > catchall, or just bounce. > > > > A > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "lenz" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 11:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [phpug] Re: Migrating a Domain Name > > > > > > re email ... google apps is pretty cheep and most of the time good > > enough for what customers need ... just an idea without wanting to > > start flamewars here :-) > > > > cheers > > lenz > > > > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:09 AM, lenz <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> i used to do everything on my own, now i have companies i rely on and > >> have fallback companies i can migrate to if things go wrong. makes me > >> a way happier man and dramatically reduces my growth of grey hair. > >> if they want only one guy to talk to, fine, that is you, where you > >> manage the stuff is not important to them, so just use some service > >> that works for you. > >> we work on a customer account that enables the owner of a domain to > >> grant management rights to a web designer/developer for management > >> exactly for the problem you describe :-) > >> > >> cheers > >> lenz > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Super Steve <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> The client is keen to just have one port of call if things go wrong, > >>> hence their desire for us to handle hosting the site and also their > >>> email. Plus it's always seemed much neater to me to have as much as > >>> possible under one roof rather than split things off. But your > >>> suggestion would get around my problem so I'll investigate further. > >>> > >>> On Mar 25, 10:47 am, lenz <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> just a short question ... why do you want the nameservers at all? all > >>>> you need is a couple a-records that point to your host (for the domain > >>>> itself, forwww.domain, maybe blog or so) the rest can happily stay > >>>> with who ever looks after the domain. don't know freeparking too well > >>>> but i am sure they have some sort of DNS editor where you can simply > >>>> add records as needed. that way email remains how it is set up and all > >>>> are happy (hopefully) > >>>> > >>>> cheers > >>>> lenz > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Jochen Daum <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > Hi, > >>>> > >>>> > On 25 March 2010 10:30, Super Steve <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> >> This is a little bit off topic for this group but I thought there's > >>>> >> plenty of experience here so I might get some good answers. > >>>> > >>>> >> I've got a new client that has asked me to build a new site for > them > >>>> >> (they previously had an old site built by someone that has now > >>>> >> vanished overseas). The site is nearly ready and I have to put some > >>>> >> thought into the best way to migrate their hosting from the old > >>>> >> company over to me. > >>>> > >>>> >> At the moment their domain name, hosting and email is all with > >>>> >> Freeparking.co.nz but I will be taking over the hosting. I'm quite > >>>> >> happy for the domain name to stay with Freeparking, and I know it's > >>>> >> just a matter of logging into their Freeparking account and > changing > >>>> >> the name servers to point to me. > >>>> > >>>> >> The thing I'm worried about is their email. I can set up mailboxes > >>>> >> for them on my service but I believe as soon as I change the name > >>>> >> servers Freeparking will drop their mailboxes. > >>>> > >>>> > I won't research if this is true, I just take that a given for now. > >>>> > >>>> >>This could cause a > >>>> >> problem because there may be a day or more where email will still > be > >>>> >> sent to Freeparking due to the delay in other systems updating > their > >>>> >> copies of the zone record. > >>>> > >>>> > You need to find a email provider that can host your email without > >>>> > having to have the DNS for it. All of them do it, you just can't use > >>>> > Freeparking as they have the DNS currently. > >>>> > >>>> > Move DNS to somewhere without email, but keep MX records in place, > so > >>>> > they point to Freeparking. I'm pretty sure they won't drop the email > >>>> > boxes, because DNS is somewhere else, only Xtra does that (better > >>>> > check though) > >>>> > >>>> > Then set up new email and point MX to the new server. Wait 24 h. > >>>> > >>>> > Then move DNS to final place. > >>>> > >>>> > BTW, we just discovered this problem as well with Webdrive, so will > >>>> > likely move DNS somewhere completely else in any case, currently > >>>> > probably nettica.com > >>>> > >>>> > HTH, Jochen > >>>> > >>>> > -- > >>>> > NZ PHP Users Group:http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug > >>>> > To post, send email to [email protected] > >>>> > To unsubscribe, send email to > >>>> > [email protected]<nzphpug%[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >>>> > nzphpug+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the > > words > >>>> > "REMOVE ME" as the subject. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> twitter: @norbu09 > >>>> current project: iWantMyName.com > >>>> painless domain registration (finally) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> NZ PHP Users Group: http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug > >>> To post, send email to [email protected] > >>> To unsubscribe, send email to > >>> [email protected]<nzphpug%[email protected]> > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> nzphpug+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the > words > >>> "REMOVE ME" as the subject. > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> twitter: @norbu09 > >> current project: iWantMyName.com > >> painless domain registration (finally) > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > twitter: @norbu09 > > current project: iWantMyName.com > > painless domain registration (finally) > > > > -- > > NZ PHP Users Group: http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug > > To post, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > [email protected]<nzphpug%[email protected]> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > nzphpug+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the > words > > "REMOVE ME" as the subject. > > -- > > NZ PHP Users Group: http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug > > To post, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > [email protected]<nzphpug%[email protected]> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > nzphpug+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the > words > > "REMOVE ME" as the subject. > > > > > -- > > Bruce Clement > > Home: http://www.clement.co.nz/ > Twitter: http://twitter.com/Bruce_Clement > Google Buzz: http://www.google.com/profiles/aotearoanz > > "Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good > appreciation of everything that already exists in this field." Mikhail > Kalashnikov > > -- > > NZ PHP Users Group: http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug > To post, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe, send email to > [email protected]<nzphpug%[email protected]> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nzphpug+ > unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words "REMOVE > ME" as the subject. > > > > > -- > Simon Holywell > http://www.simonholywell.com > > -- > NZ PHP Users Group: http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug > To post, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe, send email to > [email protected]<nzphpug%[email protected]> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nzphpug+ > unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words "REMOVE > ME" as the subject. > > -- > NZ PHP Users Group: http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug > To post, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe, send email to > [email protected]<nzphpug%[email protected]> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nzphpug+ > unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words "REMOVE > ME" as the subject. > -- Simon Holywell http://www.simonholywell.com -- NZ PHP Users Group: http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug To post, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nzphpug+unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words "REMOVE ME" as the subject.
