Hi Daisy, I am not certain there is a serious proposal for ODF+HTML5 yet. There seem to be four levels of view:
1. One is to launch an ODF document from a web page, which is usually done with a plug-in. The ODF processor is actually on the client in this case. 2. Another would be to launch an ODF document on the server side. I suppose that would be like Google Docs or Sky Drive or WebODF. 3. Then there is a distributed operation that has a server-side ODF document (or representation) render in a browser in a natural way, perhaps in a frame that is an HTML5 object of some sort. I also think some are imagining an <odf> tag that carries an in-line XML form of the single-stream ODF format. 4. An intermediate consideration, that came up at the ODF Interoperability and Conformance TC, is the notion of an ODF Web Profile that mapped some workable subset of ODF into an HTML5 rendering and vice versa. Even then there are two faces to it. It would be great if plug-ins and applets and scripts could render into an ODF DOM inside of an ODF processor, and it would be great if the ODF processor could render into an HTML5 DOM and even be seen in that DOM. It's not clear what use case(s) are being considered. I think it is a high-level fantasy that bolting ODF into HTML5 would draw much usage of ODF (and OpenOffice/LibreOffice) and that would be a good thing. It is in the last case (4) that I was thinking the ODF Toolkit might be useful for proof-of-concept work. Java seems good for this, though I don't know Java is wanted running inside an HTML5 user agent, but it would be interesting for server-side case (2) [;<) I am not sure what is the most natural fit. It seems vague still. Does that give you any ideas? - Dennis E. Hamilton tools for document interoperability, <http://nfoWorks.org/> [email protected] gsm: +1-206-779-9430 @orcmid PS: Daisy was my mother's name. She was born Daisy Violet Sherman. I smile when I see you go by Daisy. -----Original Message----- From: Daisy Guo [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 19:01 To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5 Hi, Dennis I like your proposal. Web office becomes more and more popular than desktop office. It's a good idea to link ODF with HTML5. What kind of Prove of Concept is it in your mind, that you want to implement with ODF Toolkit? I believe there are some existing projects which are trying to implement the conversion between ODF and HTML5, like WebODF. Daisy 2011/10/4 Dennis E. Hamilton <[email protected]>: > My apologies for the heavy-duty cross-posting. It might be good to pick a > single public list and a subject header and converge there. > > Q: WHERE IS THE PROPOSAL? > > This started as a simple e-mail list question by Jaime R. Garza on the > [tdf-discuss] list: > <http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07698.html>. > > There is no proposal in the sense of some technical submission to adapt ODF > for this purpose. You are pretty much seeing the extent of the discussion so > far. The proposal is a paragraph and concept being echoed around these lists > now. > > Q: WHERE TO BECOME INVOLVED IN ODF IN HTML5? > > There are probably two ways to be involved. > > First, development of a proof-of-concept and working [reference] > implementation is valuable. > > Secondly, the development of necessary specifications, perhaps jointly > between the OASIS ODF TC and the W3C, might be required. > > Also, one needs to differentiate between making some sort of > OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice deliverable that works in HTML5 and a worked > extension of HTML5 that somehow ties into the ODF Format. > > It might not even make technical sense to "make ODF part of HTML5," and that > has to be resolved also. > > Q: WHAT ABOUT OASIS (and what does Rob Weir have to say about this)? > > Rob is on vacation this week. I know he and others involved on the OASIS TCs > are interested in this topic. > > A related topic (defining HTML5 presentation of ODF documents) was raised at > the OASIS ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC TC) on their 2011-09-07 > teleconference call: > <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/201109/msg00009.html>. It came > under section 3.2.3 Profiles. The discussion is of a Web Profile for ODF. > That is not an insignificant effort. > > Q: WHAT ARE THE TECHNICAL CHALLENGES? > > ODF has no rendering model and certainly not an > interactive-presentation/-editing model. None. Obviously, > OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice do, but those is not to be found in the ODF > specification. > > There are an insignificant number of [X]HTML-isms in the ODF specifications. > XLINK is used, for example. > > There is no specified mapping to [X]HTML. If there were, the import/export > of [X]HTML in various implementations of ODF-bases software would presumable > work better. That would be the potential subject matter of a Web Profile > though. > > There is no standardized ODF DOM (and API) nor a mapping of ODF into an > HTML[5] DOM. Somehow, to make macros and applets work inside ODF, something > like this is required as well, although having it fit HTML5 as well might be > a confusion of abstraction levels. (The integration of macros and applets > that access the interior structure and external presentation of an ODF > document is implementation-defined in ODF 1.2.) > > Q: WHERE CAN TECHNICAL DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN? > > The ODF Toolkit project offers some DOM implementations, but they are not > part of ODF itself. > > The ODF Toolkit project is currently being moved to Apache though. That > project is currently quite Java-centric. It might be interesting to include > that effort in this conversation, however. > > If a public reference implementation were to be developed, I believe it is > desirable to have it be Apache licensed, wherever development were to occur. > The possibility of a new podling at Apache specifically for this effort > should not be overlooked. > > That is the only political part that I see to these challenges, apart from > developers, including in private projects, wanting to do it themselves. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jaime R. Garza [mailto:[email protected]] > <http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07708.html> > < > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3ccajgn0paeboks7htqpc0waw_qrjgcxezr-rk+63mmbubsce-...@mail.gmail.com%3e> > > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 03:29 > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5 > > Do you have any contacts, links, infos about the proposal and status? I > would really like to get involved! > > I think the first step is to integrate ODF into HTML5 as read only, editing > could come later. But this is more political than technical. > > Cheers! > > Jaime > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:07, Ian Lynch <[email protected]> wrote: > < http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07705.html> > < > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3ccaoap24+y0rfcoa78yfhtlmurq5lo4oj7aalyi3hp0rtfm-2...@mail.gmail.com%3e> > >> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official >> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I >> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in >> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and >> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be >> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with >> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in >> OO/LibO. >> -- >> Ian > [ ... ] > >
