2011/10/9 Dennis E. Hamilton <[email protected]> > Hi Daisy, > > I am not certain there is a serious proposal for ODF+HTML5 yet. There seem > to be four levels of view: > > 1. One is to launch an ODF document from a web page, which is usually done > with a plug-in. The ODF processor is actually on the client in this case. >
Just like open PDF in browser using a native-code plugin, either Adobe’s own PDF Reader or other commercial renderers, or some open source alternative (e.g. poppler). I also learn that some body try to use HTML5 and javascript replace these plugins, such as pdf.js[1][2]. Google does the same thing in Chrome. Now if we open a pdf document in Chrome, third-part plugin isn't needed. ODF document should also follow this trend. Why? I think the most important aspect is helping ODF occupy the mobile market. There are so many different hardwares and platforms in mobile device, so HTML5 and browser play a more important role than in PC platform to shield difference. If we supply a similar product like pdf.js, that would attract more users for ODF. [1]http://andreasgal.com/2011/06/15/pdf-js/ [2]http://blog.mozilla.com/cjones/ > 2. Another would be to launch an ODF document on the server side. I > suppose that would be like Google Docs or Sky Drive or WebODF. > For Google Docs and Sky Drive, it's true. But after I dive into WebODF, I believe it is a try of (1)- Rendering ODF with HTML5 and JavaScript. > 3. Then there is a distributed operation that has a server-side ODF > document (or representation) render in a browser in a natural way, perhaps > in a frame that is an HTML5 object of some sort. I also think some are > imagining an <odf> tag that carries an in-line XML form of the single-stream > ODF format. > I submitted a proposal[3] to W3C and suggest them add <odf> tag several months ago. [3] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12957 > 4. An intermediate consideration, that came up at the ODF Interoperability > and Conformance TC, is the notion of an ODF Web Profile that mapped some > workable subset of ODF into an HTML5 rendering and vice versa. Even then > there are two faces to it. It would be great if plug-ins and applets and > scripts could render into an ODF DOM inside of an ODF processor, and it > would be great if the ODF processor could render into an HTML5 DOM and even > be seen in that DOM. > > It's not clear what use case(s) are being considered. I think it is a > high-level fantasy that bolting ODF into HTML5 would draw much usage of ODF > (and OpenOffice/LibreOffice) and that would be a good thing. > > It is in the last case (4) that I was thinking the ODF Toolkit might be > useful for proof-of-concept work. Java seems good for this, though I don't > know Java is wanted running inside an HTML5 user agent, but it would be > interesting for server-side case (2) [;<) > +1 > > I am not sure what is the most natural fit. It seems vague still. > > Does that give you any ideas? > > > - Dennis E. Hamilton > tools for document interoperability, <http://nfoWorks.org/> > [email protected] gsm: +1-206-779-9430 @orcmid > > PS: Daisy was my mother's name. She was born Daisy Violet Sherman. I > smile when I see you go by Daisy. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daisy Guo [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 19:01 > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5 > > Hi, Dennis > > I like your proposal. Web office becomes more and more popular than > desktop office. It's a good idea to link ODF with HTML5. > What kind of Prove of Concept is it in your mind, that you want to > implement with ODF Toolkit? I believe there are some existing projects > which are trying to implement the conversion between ODF and HTML5, > like WebODF. > > Daisy > > 2011/10/4 Dennis E. Hamilton <[email protected]>: > > My apologies for the heavy-duty cross-posting. It might be good to pick > a single public list and a subject header and converge there. > > > > Q: WHERE IS THE PROPOSAL? > > > > This started as a simple e-mail list question by Jaime R. Garza on the > [tdf-discuss] list: > > <http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07698.html>. > > > > There is no proposal in the sense of some technical submission to adapt > ODF for this purpose. You are pretty much seeing the extent of the > discussion so far. The proposal is a paragraph and concept being echoed > around these lists now. > > > > Q: WHERE TO BECOME INVOLVED IN ODF IN HTML5? > > > > There are probably two ways to be involved. > > > > First, development of a proof-of-concept and working [reference] > implementation is valuable. > > > > Secondly, the development of necessary specifications, perhaps jointly > between the OASIS ODF TC and the W3C, might be required. > > > > Also, one needs to differentiate between making some sort of > OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice deliverable that works in HTML5 and a worked > extension of HTML5 that somehow ties into the ODF Format. > > > > It might not even make technical sense to "make ODF part of HTML5," and > that has to be resolved also. > > > > Q: WHAT ABOUT OASIS (and what does Rob Weir have to say about this)? > > > > Rob is on vacation this week. I know he and others involved on the OASIS > TCs are interested in this topic. > > > > A related topic (defining HTML5 presentation of ODF documents) was raised > at the OASIS ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC TC) on their > 2011-09-07 teleconference call: > > <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/201109/msg00009.html>. It > came under section 3.2.3 Profiles. The discussion is of a Web Profile for > ODF. That is not an insignificant effort. > > > > Q: WHAT ARE THE TECHNICAL CHALLENGES? > > > > ODF has no rendering model and certainly not an > interactive-presentation/-editing model. None. Obviously, > OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice do, but those is not to be found in the ODF > specification. > > > > There are an insignificant number of [X]HTML-isms in the ODF > specifications. XLINK is used, for example. > > > > There is no specified mapping to [X]HTML. If there were, the > import/export of [X]HTML in various implementations of ODF-bases software > would presumable work better. That would be the potential subject matter of > a Web Profile though. > > > > There is no standardized ODF DOM (and API) nor a mapping of ODF into an > HTML[5] DOM. Somehow, to make macros and applets work inside ODF, something > like this is required as well, although having it fit HTML5 as well might be > a confusion of abstraction levels. (The integration of macros and applets > that access the interior structure and external presentation of an ODF > document is implementation-defined in ODF 1.2.) > > > > Q: WHERE CAN TECHNICAL DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN? > > > > The ODF Toolkit project offers some DOM implementations, but they are not > part of ODF itself. > > > > The ODF Toolkit project is currently being moved to Apache though. That > project is currently quite Java-centric. It might be interesting to include > that effort in this conversation, however. > > > > If a public reference implementation were to be developed, I believe it > is desirable to have it be Apache licensed, wherever development were to > occur. The possibility of a new podling at Apache specifically for this > effort should not be overlooked. > > > > That is the only political part that I see to these challenges, apart > from developers, including in private projects, wanting to do it themselves. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jaime R. Garza [mailto:[email protected]] > > <http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07708.html> > > < > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3ccajgn0paeboks7htqpc0waw_qrjgcxezr-rk+63mmbubsce-...@mail.gmail.com%3e > > > > > > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 03:29 > > To: [email protected] > > Cc: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5 > > > > Do you have any contacts, links, infos about the proposal and status? I > > would really like to get involved! > > > > I think the first step is to integrate ODF into HTML5 as read only, > editing > > could come later. But this is more political than technical. > > > > Cheers! > > > > Jaime > > > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:07, Ian Lynch <[email protected]> wrote: > > < http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07705.html> > > < > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3ccaoap24+y0rfcoa78yfhtlmurq5lo4oj7aalyi3hp0rtfm-2...@mail.gmail.com%3e > > > > > >> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official > >> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I > >> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in > >> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and > >> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be > >> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with > >> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in > >> OO/LibO. > >> -- > >> Ian > > [ ... ] > > > > > > -- -Devin
