Yeah. Mono strikes me as the sort of project which will never quite achieve success because Microsoft will be constantly moving the goalposts. Time will tell I guess.
David. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Wanstead Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 11:10 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Offtopic List Subject: RE: [DUG-Offtopic] Delphi User Group Hi Neven, I think the whole point of dotnet is Microsoft want to get most developers on their side. Don't you agree? If that point is true, I see no reason why Microsoft want to let developers freely go away. Regards Leigh http://www.salenz.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neven MacEwan Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 11:00 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Offtopic List Subject: Re: [DUG-Offtopic] Delphi User Group David This is why I think mono is critical and why I'd suggest any new fat client dev been done in .NET (Delphi or C#). The lesson is in thunderbird, We have not had anyone not like TB why? not because it is better that Outlook (Express) but because it is almost indistinguishable from OE. IMHO it is these cross plat apps which are the key to Linux acceptance, don't preach to the ignorant use their ignorance! The caveat is that if you are writing for .NET you will have to be careful not to Microsoftise your app, ie no ADO.net, PostgreSQL or Firebird (not MS SQL) This way you can write something which is truly portable Neven David Brennan wrote: > I think Neven is correct on this point. > > If we could run our application on a Linux server and have Windows users > access it remotely via a reliable Terminal Services equivalent (including > good printing support) then we would like a short. TS/Citrix licensing costs > are brutal. > > Paul Eggleton is also correct. Kylux just wasn't close enough. It needed to > implement direct VCL mapping to linux controls instead of introducing CLX. > Then we could recompile our application for Linux fairly easily. As it > stands it would be a huge rewrite which I wouldn't even contemplate - > TS/Citrix licensing costs aren't THAT bad on that scale of things. > > Cheers, > David. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Todd Martin > Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 9:26 a.m. > To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Offtopic List > Subject: Re: [DUG-Offtopic] Delphi User Group > > Hi Neven > > So are you suggesting that Kylix desktop applications would find more use, > if they could be accessed via TS? Why? > I mean I can understand people wanting to access their desktop remotely for > using their own special apps, but are network users really likely to want to > > access native Linux applications from their Windows client? > What types of applications fall into this category? > > Todd. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Neven MacEwan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "NZ Borland Developers Group - Offtopic List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:38 AM > Subject: Re: [DUG-Offtopic] Delphi User Group > > > >>Paul >> >>The problem with Kylix was a tiny demand for Linux Desktops, This >>is compounded by Linux having no practical equivalent of Terminal >>Services/ Citrix >> >>The leap in Open Source in in apps (Thunderbird, firefox, Opera, Open >>Office) >> >>It will take years for Linux to make a dent in the desktop >> >>Borland just misjudged this >> >>Neven >> >>Paul Eggleton wrote: >> >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Thursday, 17 November 2005 3:29 >>>p.m.: >>> >>> >>>>>That's why I'm hoping for robust Kylix support in D2006, and native >>>>>expansion into the smaller hardware. >>>>>That's what we need for continued relivency. >>>> >>>>There's no kylix support for 2006. Kylix failed miserably. Cost >>>>borland millions of dollars and set back Delphi development 6-12 >>>>months. >>> >>> >>>To my mind, the problems with Kylix were: >>> >>>Firstly, Borland may have been marketing to the wrong people. If Borland >>>expected anyone to move from existing Free Software tools available on >>>Linux to Borland ones they were being extremely optimistic. The people >>>that they ought to have been targeting were people already developing >>>Windows software who wanted to make their applications genuinely >>>cross-platform. >>> >>>Following from the above, the split between CLX and the VCL was too >>>great. There is too much work involved in trying to port an application >>>that makes heavy use of the VCL to CLX - they are quite different and >>>CLX is much more limited. Had it been much easier, it would have been >>>cheap for a company with even a minor interest in providing a Linux >>>version of their software to do so. I believe a version of the VCL that >>>runs on Linux would be technically possible, and would certainly have >>>made it a lot easier to port existing VCL-based applications to Linux >>>(and after that, maintaining the cross-platform nature of the >>>application). >>> >>>Of course the problem then would be 3rd-party VCL components where the >>>source was not available - they would not be usable without a Win32 API >>>compatibility layer such as wine / winelib (which has not been ready to >>>the degree that it would have needed to be until relatively recently, >>>however had the project been sponsored in a major way by Borland then >>>who knows how much further ahead they could have been). >>> >>>Then, having developed Kylix, which in itself was a good product, >>>Borland did not continue developing it to keep up with the changes to >>>the Linux platform. Linux has a very fast pace of development and after >>>a while, applications built in Kylix simply did not look and feel as >>>nice as ones built natively (I am mostly referring to those using Qt / >>>KDE libraries). Of course by this stage I imagine Borland had >>>unofficially abandoned Kylix development anyway. >>> >>>I concede perhaps that Borland may have been too far ahead of the market >>>and that perhaps the world was not ready for desktop Linux at the time >>>Kylix was released, but I believe we are now at the stage were Linux on >>>the desktop is a viable alternative in many situations, and Delphi >>>developers still don't yet really have an easy way to port their >>>applications to Linux. >>> >>>Cheers, >>>Paul >>> >>>--------------------------------------------------------- >>>Paul Eggleton Ph: +64-9-4154790 >>>Software Developer Fax: +64-9-4154791 >>>CJN Technologies Ltd. DDI: +64-9-4154795 >>>http://www.cjntech.co.nz Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>--------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>[Disclaimer: any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not >>>those of my employer] >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Offtopic mailing list >>>[email protected] >>>http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic >>> >>> >> >>-- >>Neven MacEwan (B.E. E&E) >>Ph. 09 620 1356 Mob. 027 4749 062 >> >>New Address Details >>=================== >>MWK Computer Systems >>1 Taumata Rd >>Sandringham >>Auckland >> >>Ph 620 1356 >>Fx 620 1336 >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>Offtopic mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/173 - Release Date: 16/11/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > Offtopic mailing list > [email protected] > http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic > > _______________________________________________ > Offtopic mailing list > [email protected] > http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic > > -- Neven MacEwan (B.E. E&E) Ph. 09 620 1356 Mob. 027 4749 062 New Address Details =================== MWK Computer Systems 1 Taumata Rd Sandringham Auckland Ph 620 1356 Fx 620 1336 _______________________________________________ Offtopic mailing list [email protected] http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic _______________________________________________ Offtopic mailing list [email protected] http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic
