Hi Neven, >>but what I'm saying is that we as >>developers do not have to give them control, .net is a std virtual >>machine and as long as your careful you can use this to your advantage
I don't think so. Show me the figure how many developers manage to do what you said in the real world. Regards Leigh http://www.salenz.com -----Original Message----- From: Neven MacEwan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 11:19 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; NZ Borland Developers Group - Offtopic List Subject: Re: [DUG-Offtopic] Delphi User Group Leigh What M$ want is us working for them!, but what I'm saying is that we as developers do not have to give them control, .net is a std virtual machine and as long as your careful you can use this to your advantage Neven Leigh Wanstead wrote: > Hi Neven, > > I think the whole point of dotnet is Microsoft want to get most developers > on their side. Don't you agree? If that point is true, I see no reason why > Microsoft want to let developers freely go away. > > Regards > Leigh > http://www.salenz.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neven MacEwan > Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 11:00 a.m. > To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Offtopic List > Subject: Re: [DUG-Offtopic] Delphi User Group > > > David > > This is why I think mono is critical and why I'd suggest any new fat > client dev been done in .NET (Delphi or C#). The lesson is in > thunderbird, We have not had anyone not like TB why? not because it is > better that Outlook (Express) but because it is almost indistinguishable > from OE. IMHO it is these cross plat apps which are the key to Linux > acceptance, don't preach to the ignorant use their ignorance! > > The caveat is that if you are writing for .NET you will have to be > careful not to Microsoftise your app, ie no ADO.net, PostgreSQL or > Firebird (not MS SQL) This way you can write something which is truly > portable > > Neven > > David Brennan wrote: > >>I think Neven is correct on this point. >> >>If we could run our application on a Linux server and have Windows users >>access it remotely via a reliable Terminal Services equivalent (including >>good printing support) then we would like a short. TS/Citrix licensing > > costs > >>are brutal. >> >>Paul Eggleton is also correct. Kylux just wasn't close enough. It needed > > to > >>implement direct VCL mapping to linux controls instead of introducing CLX. >>Then we could recompile our application for Linux fairly easily. As it >>stands it would be a huge rewrite which I wouldn't even contemplate - >>TS/Citrix licensing costs aren't THAT bad on that scale of things. >> >>Cheers, >>David. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>On Behalf Of Todd Martin >>Sent: Monday, 21 November 2005 9:26 a.m. >>To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Offtopic List >>Subject: Re: [DUG-Offtopic] Delphi User Group >> >>Hi Neven >> >>So are you suggesting that Kylix desktop applications would find more use, >>if they could be accessed via TS? Why? >>I mean I can understand people wanting to access their desktop remotely > > for > >>using their own special apps, but are network users really likely to want > > to > >>access native Linux applications from their Windows client? >>What types of applications fall into this category? >> >>Todd. >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Neven MacEwan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "NZ Borland Developers Group - Offtopic List" <[email protected]> >>Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:38 AM >>Subject: Re: [DUG-Offtopic] Delphi User Group >> >> >> >> >>>Paul >>> >>>The problem with Kylix was a tiny demand for Linux Desktops, This >>>is compounded by Linux having no practical equivalent of Terminal >>>Services/ Citrix >>> >>>The leap in Open Source in in apps (Thunderbird, firefox, Opera, Open >>>Office) >>> >>>It will take years for Linux to make a dent in the desktop >>> >>>Borland just misjudged this >>> >>>Neven >>> >>>Paul Eggleton wrote: >>> >>> >>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Thursday, 17 November 2005 3:29 >>>>p.m.: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>That's why I'm hoping for robust Kylix support in D2006, and native >>>>>>expansion into the smaller hardware. >>>>>>That's what we need for continued relivency. >>>>> >>>>>There's no kylix support for 2006. Kylix failed miserably. Cost >>>>>borland millions of dollars and set back Delphi development 6-12 >>>>>months. >>>> >>>> >>>>To my mind, the problems with Kylix were: >>>> >>>>Firstly, Borland may have been marketing to the wrong people. If Borland >>>>expected anyone to move from existing Free Software tools available on >>>>Linux to Borland ones they were being extremely optimistic. The people >>>>that they ought to have been targeting were people already developing >>>>Windows software who wanted to make their applications genuinely >>>>cross-platform. >>>> >>>>Following from the above, the split between CLX and the VCL was too >>>>great. There is too much work involved in trying to port an application >>>>that makes heavy use of the VCL to CLX - they are quite different and >>>>CLX is much more limited. Had it been much easier, it would have been >>>>cheap for a company with even a minor interest in providing a Linux >>>>version of their software to do so. I believe a version of the VCL that >>>>runs on Linux would be technically possible, and would certainly have >>>>made it a lot easier to port existing VCL-based applications to Linux >>>>(and after that, maintaining the cross-platform nature of the >>>>application). >>>> >>>>Of course the problem then would be 3rd-party VCL components where the >>>>source was not available - they would not be usable without a Win32 API >>>>compatibility layer such as wine / winelib (which has not been ready to >>>>the degree that it would have needed to be until relatively recently, >>>>however had the project been sponsored in a major way by Borland then >>>>who knows how much further ahead they could have been). >>>> >>>>Then, having developed Kylix, which in itself was a good product, >>>>Borland did not continue developing it to keep up with the changes to >>>>the Linux platform. Linux has a very fast pace of development and after >>>>a while, applications built in Kylix simply did not look and feel as >>>>nice as ones built natively (I am mostly referring to those using Qt / >>>>KDE libraries). Of course by this stage I imagine Borland had >>>>unofficially abandoned Kylix development anyway. >>>> >>>>I concede perhaps that Borland may have been too far ahead of the market >>>>and that perhaps the world was not ready for desktop Linux at the time >>>>Kylix was released, but I believe we are now at the stage were Linux on >>>>the desktop is a viable alternative in many situations, and Delphi >>>>developers still don't yet really have an easy way to port their >>>>applications to Linux. >>>> >>>>Cheers, >>>>Paul >>>> >>>>--------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Paul Eggleton Ph: +64-9-4154790 >>>>Software Developer Fax: +64-9-4154791 >>>>CJN Technologies Ltd. DDI: +64-9-4154795 >>>>http://www.cjntech.co.nz Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>--------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>[Disclaimer: any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not >>>>those of my employer] >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Offtopic mailing list >>>>[email protected] >>>>http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic >>>> >>>> >>> >>>-- >>>Neven MacEwan (B.E. E&E) >>>Ph. 09 620 1356 Mob. 027 4749 062 >>> >>>New Address Details >>>=================== >>>MWK Computer Systems >>>1 Taumata Rd >>>Sandringham >>>Auckland >>> >>>Ph 620 1356 >>>Fx 620 1336 >>> >> >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > >>---- >> >> >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Offtopic mailing list >>>[email protected] >>>http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic >>> >> >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > >>---- >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/173 - Release Date: 16/11/2005 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Offtopic mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Offtopic mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic >> >> > > > -- > Neven MacEwan (B.E. E&E) > Ph. 09 620 1356 Mob. 027 4749 062 > > New Address Details > =================== > MWK Computer Systems > 1 Taumata Rd > Sandringham > Auckland > > Ph 620 1356 > Fx 620 1336 > > > _______________________________________________ > Offtopic mailing list > [email protected] > http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic > > -- Neven MacEwan (B.E. E&E) Ph. 09 620 1356 Mob. 027 4749 062 New Address Details =================== MWK Computer Systems 1 Taumata Rd Sandringham Auckland Ph 620 1356 Fx 620 1336 _______________________________________________ Offtopic mailing list [email protected] http://ns3.123.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/offtopic
