On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 09:25:32AM -0700, Stephen Lau wrote: > > I am asking Opensolaris.org to start their own list to mitigate the > > problems caused by the unusable Sun Studio web forum software and to > > fill the need for a compiler related discussion forum. > > Why? > The latter (to me) seems to be fulfilled by a (until today) fairly low > traffic tools-discuss list.
Well, one of the suggestions mooted recently on that list, which garnered a good deal of support, is to rename the even less-used tools-gcc list to tools-compilers, essentially extending its charter to include both compilers used in building OpenSolaris components. This seems all right to me, though I'm still concerned about it becoming a general Sun product support venue (as you are). If we're not going to do this, the alternative seems to be killing tools-gcc and expecting people to ask gcc build-related questions on tools-discuss, and gcc-the-deliverable questions on sfwnv-discuss. I suppose that's all right, but I think tools-compilers would actually be more useful for everyone. > >> Don't dilute OpenSolaris' already existing forums with more that aren't > >> relevant. The tools-discuss list is already setup for > >> OpenSolaris-related tools discussion. Anything non-OpenSolaris related > >> should go to a proper Sun Studio forum, not here. > > > > Is Sun Studio a compiler supported by Opensolaris? > > [ ] yes > > [ ] no > > Yes. The compiler itself is not supported by the OpenSolaris community; it's a Sun product supported by Sun on commercial terms. If a Studio user wants Studio support, he needs to call his Sun sales rep and ask for a support contract. Most OpenSolaris consolidations happen to support building with some version of it, but that limits the context of on-topic posts on such a "support" list; no one has yet convinced me that the separate-list partisans actually understand and accept this restriction, and some of them seem to be actively arguing against it. We can't seem to say it enough: OpenSolaris is not the catch-all name for "Sun customer engagement". > > I think if Sun Studio isn't worth a mailing list at opensolaris.org > > then you should just drop support for it. I'd actually prefer this. gcc is the OpenSolaris compiler; it's the only C compiler delivered by an OpenSolaris component, and it's the only open source and/or freely-redistributable C compiler capable of building ON. That we're still using Studio after the OpenSolaris launch fiasco is a testament more to Sun's convoluted internal business strategies and organisational structures than to any sound technical rationale. Nevertheless, I see little realistic chance that we'll stop using Studio any time soon. Change entails risk, and the organisation responsible for Studio has always managed to do just enough to keep the cost of staying with it slightly lower than the cost of switching. So at this point, I'd just as soon we extend the tools-gcc charter and change its name accordingly. Given your reservations (which you've expressed even more strongly than I did previously), perhaps we should establish a written understanding. The challenge is in the definitions; how about something like: ---8<--- On-topic posts in this list may include discussion of any of the following broadly-defined areas: 1. Use of currently documented or new compilers to build any component of OpenSolaris; assistance with and troubleshooting of same. 2. Diagnosis and troubleshooting of compiler or source defects observed while building any OpenSolaris component, and/or triggered specifically by the sources in any OpenSolaris component or deliverable (such as installed header files). 3. The design, implementation, and packaging of any compiler delivered by any OpenSolaris component; fixing of bugs in, or RFEs to, any of same. 4. Development of any extant, new, or contemplated OpenSolaris technology as concerns integration or interoperability with a particular compiler or compilers generally. In all of the foregoing, "compiler" is used to mean any compiler or related utility (e.g., lint), exclusive of compilers which are wholly integrated into and useful only with some larger feature (such as the D and Perl compilers). Specifically, this is not a general-purpose support forum for Sun's Studio or any other compiler products not delivered by OpenSolaris. Sun customers wishing to obtain support for these products should contact their service provider or sales representative to obtain a commercial support contract appropriate to their needs. An excessive number of off-topic posts of this nature will result in the closure or further restriction of this mailing list. ---8<--- -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!"
