Milton,
While I understand the normal definition of a GM intermediate is the A body.
I wanted to challenge the "norm" and I think I did that pretty well if you
really read exactly what was written.
You did make a major mistake, and you are not alone when you stated -
" ??? As an example, a '59 Olds Dynamic 88, a Super 88, and a 98 are the
same, > just different styling and accessories, with the same 394 engine."
Exactly how the 88 with there 123" w/b B bodies and the 126.3" w/b C modies
are the same baffles me. ??? Have you ever paid attention to the
differences, had to spend a considerable time in the back seat or deal with
a child seat in the rear? That extra 3+" makes a big difference as well as
the extra ride and quietness issues.
My point is this - There are significant differences between the 88 and 98
models. In your response, you have grouped them together, but trust me, a B
body 88 is not the same chassis as the C body 98. So by these size
differences you cannot have too "different", "fullsize" cars, Whish is the
full size car? The SMALLER 88, or the LARGER 98? If you take the fact that
the largest car that Oldsmobile made as the true full size, then that would
by all accepted terms and meanings in the universe that the 88 would be the
true intermediates, and that by all true and accepted car definitions in the
universe means that A bodies are really NOT intermediates.
To me, and justified by the size, marketing and performance differences, a
Oldsmobile Delta 88 is not the same car as a Oldsmobile 98!
My post was made to make people ponder the thinking that sometimes what we
accept as normal and standard according to all the known and unknowns in the
universe might just not be that. it is something that is not a known law of
the universe, but what someone might have just assumed / started many years
ago and is not really correct when you look at the facts.
It is also possible that grouping the B/C bodies together (forgetting that
they are in truth two different size cars) and making the A body known as
the accepted intermediate size (rather than the true intermediate size B
body) was done by the Chevrolet division as they only had the smaller B body
(Impale, Caprice, Etc) rather than the true full size C body car (Oldsmobile
98) and this way Chevrolet did not feel left out or in second place to
Oldsmobile.
And I still stand by what I said that possibly Oldsmobile started the whole
factory muscle car thing when in the EARLY 50's they took the larger engine
from the larger 98 and installed it in the smaller and lighter 88.
And this applies so well to what people accept as "true" factory muscle
cars. It is not a definition that is easy to make as the footings (what is
really a true intermediate and full size car, as pertains to Oldsmobile's)
is somewhat vague and may be possibly incorrect.
Just a different way of lookiing at things. A way I NEVER thought of until I
realized the true differences between the A, B, and C bodies
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Infinite Space Systems, Inc." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: 442 Achieva - and wanderings of the super 88 !!
David,
Did Oldsmobile start the whole trend with the super 88 way back when? IE
taking a engine from a "full size" car (olds 98) and putting it in a
smaller "intermediate" (Olds 88) size car to improve performance?
??? As an example, a '59 Olds Dynamic 88, a Super 88, and a 98 are the
same, just different styling and accessories, with the same 394 engine. In
'64, we got the Jetstar 88 freak with the Olds big cars and the first
A-bodies. The Jetstar 88 was a lightened big car with A-body sized
suspension and brakes. It was a bad idea.
Or, did Pontiac do when they took the engine from a "full size" car and
put in a "intermediate" A body?
Actually, Pontiac did it in '62 and the same in '63 by installing a 406HP
('62) and later a 425HP ('63) 421 dual quad Super Duty in a Tempest
compact car body (basic Chevy II/Olds F-85 style but much smaller than a
'64 A-body and uni-body construction) and selling them to hard core
racers, like Arnie Beswick. Those cars were mean. Ford countered with a
425HP 427 in a Ford Fairlane in '63. MOPAR put 413 dual quad crossrams in
'62 Dodge Darts and the same in a 426 for '63. The car wars were on, in a
big way. For various reasons, these cars were not streetable.
The true street muscle cars started with the '64 389 GTO in the first
Tempest A-body, followed quickly by the '64 Olds 442. Olds had decided to
fight Pontiac.
But then back to Oldsmobile (and Cad/Buick) they were the only companies
that had a true "full size" (C-body) car line. Pontiac and Chevrolet's
wanna be full size offerings were never true "full size" as they were
based off of the Delta 88 "B" body.
I don't know where this is coming from. I can guarantee you my several '67
Delta 88s were true land yachts and just as big and heavy as contemporary
98s. A '66-'68 fullsize Chevy is no way as heavy as a Delta 88. That's
exactly why the Missoura Highway Patrol used '66-'69 Olds Delta 88s.
So if A bodies by definition are now not "intermediates" what are they,
compacts?
GM '64-'72 A-Bodies are GM INTERMEDIATES and nothing in the known or
unknown universe will ever change that.
Milton Schick
1964 442 Cutlass
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
