[Winona Online Democracy] Hello Paul, I agree with you that "You [can] have power but not monetary wealth" and that I too "I would gladly trade any day the power of many volunteers with little money over lots [of] money and a few volunteers". But I disagree with you when you say, "You can have wealth and not exercise power". Please show me an example of such a noble soul. I believe that money has twisted, contorted, and corrupted our democracy. People's opinions and voices should matter, not their millions. Irregardless of political parties, do you think that the most honest, honorable, and qualified person could win an election in today's money and media saturtated campaigns? Maybe I'm a die hard conservative but I think we should revisit the questions that Socrates, Plato, and many others have asked throughout the ages when they wondered what kind of political system would allow the best and most honorable people to govern. If we can't vote for the most honest or qualifed person because it's not pragmatic, then that system is flawed and needs to be reformed. I don't want to oversimplify the complex issues either. I don't want to blame one person or one party. We all have a responsibility in both the problem and it's possible solutions. About 10 years ago, I once read a qoute in the Washington Post that went something like this, "we make candidates grovel and then we resent them for doing so...". I found that quote to be interesting because while we like to make fun of our corrupt politicians, we don't like to get involved to help create a system where people would not have to grovel to become elected. We like to complain but we don't like to become involved in the solutions. I believe most of us know in our hearts that money, greed, power, and our current media have corrupted our political system. I believe most of us want to make things more fair and honest. But most of us keep focussing too much on candidates and ignoring the system. The rules of the game are flawed, not (so much) the candidates. Both John McCain and Russ Feingold point out that many want to change the election process but no one wants to unilatteraly (sp?) disarm. It's like expecting two drunks or drug addicts to cut off their supplies. They need someone else to intervene. In our case, we need the citizens to intervene and reform the rules of the game. I don't think this is a partisan issue. I think this is a larger issue that transcends party politics. I worry that future discussions about the Electoral College and other issues will be domindated by the behind-the-scenes concern of, "will it benefit or hurt my political party?" It doesn't have to be that way. I think it should be about the common good and our shared democracy. Am I being too conservative or, conversely, too idealistic? ;-> What do you think? (For the record, Plato's leaders would be purposely "relatively" poor. I also disagree with many conclusions of Socrates and Plato.) Dwayne Voegeli ========================== >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:05:42 -0600 (CST) >X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: Paul Double <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [Winona] Powerful Without Wealth >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk > >[Winona Online Democracy] > >Dwayne, > >I understood your point but still believe they are separate issues > >You can have wealth and not exercise power. >You and have power but not monetary wealth > >In the political arena or in most endeavors I would gladly trade any day >the power of many volunteers with little money over lots money and a few >volunteers. > >Paul Double >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:12:48 -0500 >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>From: Dwayne Voegeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Subject: [Winona] Powerful Without Wealth >>Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>[Winona Online Democracy] >> >>Hello Paul, >> >>I think I must have confused you with my question. >> >>Achbishop Desmond Tutu and Mother Teresa are people without wealth but who >>are very powerful because of their passion, committment, and labors of >>love. There are other examples of that kind of "moral power". >> >>What I was asking about was to name a wealthy person who is not politically >>powerful. >> >>Dwayne >> >>============= >> >> >>>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:17:21 -0600 (CST) >>>X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>From: Paul Double <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>Subject: [Winona] Power without Wealth >>>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>>Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Precedence: bulk >>> >>>[Winona Online Democracy] >>> >>>Dwayne: >>> >>>Achbishop Desmond Tutu >>> >>>Mother Teresa >>> >>>Not always >>> >>>Paul Double >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>> >>>>I do not agree with you on these points: >>>> >>>>A. Wealth and power are one in the same. Show me an example of someone >>>>who is wealthy and that does not have some form of power. >>>> >>>>Dwayne >>> >>>---------------- >>>This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. >>>Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. >>>Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. >>>Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. >>>Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >> >> >>---------------- >>This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. >>Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. >>Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. >>Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. >>Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >---------------- >This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. >Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. >Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. >Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. >Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ---------------- This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
