On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 10/17/2011 09:20 AM, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher<[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave >>>> Fisher<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I like your proposal. I have some comments inline. >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing >>>>>> lists and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo >>>>>> mailing lists. I realize that this is not the solution that >>>>>> many of us would prefer, but I believe that it is the best >>>>>> way forward that anyone is willing to volunteer to lead. >>>>>> Please delight me by proving me wrong on this, by objecting >>>>>> this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative >>>>>> migration*. But this approach is more graceful than the >>>>>> default, if we do nothing, of just having the lists just go >>>>>> down one day and not recover. >>>>>> >>>>>> Proposal: >>>>>> >>>>>> If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition >>>>>> plan, in one week I will do the following: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that >>>>>> have received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with : >>>>>> >>>>>> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not >>>>>> English >>>>>> >>>>>> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should >>>>>> be pointed to. >>>>> >>>>> c) the list's OOo/Kenai project. >>>>> >>>> >>>> No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see >>>> where that info helps with the migration. >>>> >>>>> At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated in >>>>> the OOo properties that Dennis and I are "noodling" over. >>>>> (Language is another property.) >>>>> >>>>>> 3) I will then draft, in English, a post to be send to the >>>>>> above lists. > > Some of the lists in question may be moderated. Hopefully you/we won't run > into any issues about that. >
Hi Kay, Could you explain what the issue would be here? I was assuming I would join each of the mailing lists, in order to send the notification post. I'd then be there on the list to also answer any questions. Are there lists that I cannot subscribe to without moderator approval? Do you know which ones? -Rob > The post will talk about the overall effort of >>>>>> >>>>>> the migration to Apache, the specific migration of the >>>>>> mailing lists, and invite the subscribers to stay informed >>>>>> and to participate in the new Apache lists. Information on >>>>>> how to subscribe will be provided. A shutdown date, for the >>>>>> legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the posting >>>>>> date. >>>>> >>>>> It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general >>>>> timeline for the OOo migration. We should be clear about what >>>>> is NOT being migrated and what is possible if the community >>>>> disagrees.. > > Yes. We definitely need to work on such a statement (wiki page) > >>>>> >>>> >>>> Great. If we have a good statement on overall migration, we can >>>> include that. Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link to >>>> a wiki page where the latest info can be found. But there is no >>>> technical requirement for us to figure everything out before we >>>> move forward on independent pieces that we do understand. We've >>>> done that already in other areas, like source code, issue >>>> tracking, and soon the forums. And in general, it is to our >>>> benefit to move ahead with the pieces we do understand, >>>> especially communications vehicles, so we're not caught in a bad >>>> situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly became unavailable. >>>> It is prudent to ensure that we have the main means of >>>> communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than >>>> later. >>> >>> It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes >>> are put in the context of the total migration the better. >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into >>>>>> other languages. >>>>>> >>>>>> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the >>>>>> posts to the lists. >>>>>> >>>>>> 6) The note will be repeated a week later. >>>>>> >>>>>> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai >>>>>> admins close the lists, per: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> > [ this para is from Dave's response. I don't know why it's not staying > put...sorrry!] > In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and > Apache Infra should have control over the openoffice.org MX records. An > easier alternative would be to decide what MX services we want to continue > on openoffice.org and do the MX migration at this point. Even if it will > bounce and/or forward email. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or >>>> indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy >>>> lists. Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers. >>>> An earlier poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per >>>> day. We have a good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave >>>> the spammers behind. >>> >>> Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of >>> their @openoffice.org email address. We owe it to these people to >>> give them some time to react if these are being dropped. There are >>> also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts. >>> We've "bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If >>> someone cares enough about openoffice.org personal email addresses >>> we'll need volunteers to work out the details. >>> >> >> Nothing I've proposed will impact the @openoffice.org mail >> forwarding service. That is an independent issue that we need to >> develop a plan for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we >> announce mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related >> to the forwarding service. >> >> It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing >> page on the current status of the migration. What has moved, what >> hasn't, what the general plan is. Something with a lot less >> technical detail than we have on the wiki right now. A high level >> summary that we can point users to. >> >> -Rob >> >>> Regards, Dave >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -Rob >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > MzK > > "There is no such thing as coincidence." > -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39 >
