Hi Joe, On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a > databasesomewhere. At one point that database > was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can > transfer it's contents to us without any concerns > about privacy violations. This has nothing to > do with mailing list subscriptions, which are > a completely separate issue. If Oracle doesn't > transfer the forward data to us, they stop working > altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting > that to happen. OTOH I have no interest at all in > supporting the continued use of those forwarders > beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications, > and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted > effort to phase them out completely over a significant > time period. I think most of us agree that we do not want to keep these @OOo forwarders around for very long. > > > I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion, > so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list. Sorry, I should have. Whatever is decided you are the one who will help make it so! Best Regards, Dave > > > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Dennis E. Hamilton <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM >> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses >> >> <orcmid response="in-line" /> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:[email protected]] >> <http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201111.mbox/%3c049501cc98be$68f003b0$3ad00b10$@com%3e> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48 >> To: [email protected]; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator ' >> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen' >> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses >> >> Dennis Hamilton wrote: >>> There are problems concerning migration of >>> [email protected], [email protected], and >>> [email protected]. Consequently, all >> ? [email protected] addresses will be shut down when the >>> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November. >> >> Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I must >> have >> missed that announcement.... >> >> <orcmid> >> No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved, >> along with migration of the site's static content and the >> interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services. >> >> There are other services of the web site that are not >> being preserved. This includes mailing lists that >> are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org) >> and an e-mail forwarding and identification service >> using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not >> entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID). >> >> Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o >> web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as >> part of an identity system. It is also the case that >> myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity >> email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o. >> These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way >> to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a >> "real" receiving address specified by the holder of >> myname@ OO.o. >> </orcmid> >> >>> 1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the >>> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the >>> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to >>> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved. >> >> I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing to do >> with the addresses within it or accessing it. >> >> <orcmid> >> The problem is not with custody but with services operated >> at that address once the domain and the hosting is in >> Apache custody. The presumption is that there will be no >> migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail >> forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of >> the e-mail forwarding. So, when the hosting is done by >> Apache, it is expected that this service and its data will >> be lost. >> >> Note, this is not so much about the addresses of the site, >> but how name@ OO.o is forwarded when it is not >> actually the address of part of the site (or, in the case >> of mailing lists, even when it is). >> </orcmid> >> >> >> >>> 2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to >>> transfer those forwarding accounts because of rules about >>> privacy and European trans-national data-sharing regulations. >> >> If you can articulate this concern more clearly, I'll forward it to European >> attorneys who can advise us. >> >> <orcmid> >> The holder of a myname@ openoffice.org has a password for >> managing this little account. In addition, the email >> address to which myname @OO.o is forwarded is kept in >> the account record. Other information and parameters >> are either public or not personal. >> If the e-mail address to which forwarding occurs is >> considered private data, there is a concern that having >> the list be moved into Apache custody might constitute >> an infraction of some privacy policy or even regulatory >> policies concerning the handling and sharing of private >> information. >> The current location of storage of the list and >> operation of the forwarding service may be material >> factors in this case. >> </orcmid> >> >> >>> There is speculation that the disruption of e-mail is tolerable >>> and that most of the current accounts have been abandoned. >>> That view seems to ignore the importance of these identifiers >>> as part of the provenance structure for contributions to the >>> open-source project and the integrity of the code base and >>> related artifacts. >> >> I cannot personally judge the technical obstacles you identify, but my gut >> tells me that we shouldn't disrupt the existing flow of Open Office >> activities >> simply because ownership has transferred to Apache. Nor will it be >> reasonable >> to ask our Infra team to manage 100K+ additional email accounts. >> >> Can you advise us what the minimum that has to be done in order to let Open >> Office continue in non-crisis mode about this? >> >> <orcmid> >> There are two minima that I see. >> >> One is to allow the forwarding system to cease operation >> and let the breakdowns be whatever they are. >> >> The other is to arrange for the forwarding service to be >> migrated along with the site and operated as part of the >> re-hosted site still under the openoffice.org domain. >> This will require cooperation between Oracle and Apache >> Infrastructure. Depending on the software involved, it >> will involve the PPMC providing technical administration >> for the maintenance of the service. >> >> If the forwarding is migrated, there would be no provision >> for adding new users. Current users would be responsible >> for maintaining their own forwarding and, when desirable, >> retiring their use of the myname @OO.o at their >> convenience when there is no concern for someone attempting >> to send mail to it or use it as the basis for some sort of >> registration. >> >> This is independent from the concern about shut-down of >> mailing lists whose names are, similarly, listname @oO.o. >> Mailing lists and their archives are operated in an entirely >> different way and that is a separate problem, despite >> certain functional similarities. >> </orcmid>. >> >> >> /Larry >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:[email protected]] >> <http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201111.mbox/%[email protected]%3e> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:00 AM >>> To: OOo-dev Apache Incubator >>> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen' >>> Subject: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses >>> >>> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, >>> listname@ >>> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org. Consequently, all >>> yourname@ >>> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into >>> its >>> final stages sometime in November. >>> >>> I don't have a solution. I have an appraisal of the issue. It is >>> something >>> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, >>> the >>> prospect of a workable solution. >> >>
