Actually you should know I'm the main guy who deals with the mail services at the ASF, so yeah considering my opinion as relevant might be wise ;-)
>________________________________ >From: Dave Fisher <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; 'Lawrence Rosen' ><[email protected]> >Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:38 PM >Subject: Re: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses > >Hi Joe, > >On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote: > >> Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a >> databasesomewhere. At one point that database >> was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can >> transfer it's contents to us without any concerns >> about privacy violations. This has nothing to >> do with mailing list subscriptions, which are >> a completely separate issue. If Oracle doesn't >> transfer the forward data to us, they stop working >> altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting >> that to happen. OTOH I have no interest at all in >> supporting the continued use of those forwarders >> beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications, >> and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted >> effort to phase them out completely over a significant >> time period. > >I think most of us agree that we do not want to keep these @OOo forwarders >around for very long. > >> >> >> I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion, >> so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list. > >Sorry, I should have. Whatever is decided you are the one who will help make >it so! > >Best Regards, >Dave > > >> >> >> >> >> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM >>> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses >>> >>> <orcmid response="in-line" /> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:[email protected]] >>> <http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201111.mbox/%3c049501cc98be$68f003b0$3ad00b10$@com%3e> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48 >>> To: [email protected]; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator ' >>> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen' >>> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses >>> >>> Dennis Hamilton wrote: >>>> There are problems concerning migration of >>>> [email protected], [email protected], and >>>> [email protected]. Consequently, all >>> ? [email protected] addresses will be shut down when the >>>> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November. >>> >>> Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I must >>> have >>> missed that announcement.... >>> >>> <orcmid> >>> No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved, >>> along with migration of the site's static content and the >>> interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services. >>> >>> There are other services of the web site that are not >>> being preserved. This includes mailing lists that >>> are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org) >>> and an e-mail forwarding and identification service >>> using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not >>> entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID). >>> >>> Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o >>> web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as >>> part of an identity system. It is also the case that >>> myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity >>> email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o. >>> These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way >>> to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a >>> "real" receiving address specified by the holder of >>> myname@ OO.o. >>> </orcmid> >>> >>>> 1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the >>>> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the >>>> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to >>>> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved. >>> >>> I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing to do >>> with the addresses within it or accessing it. >>> >>> <orcmid> >>> The problem is not with custody but with services operated >>> at that address once the domain and the hosting is in >>> Apache custody. The presumption is that there will be no >>> migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail >>> forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of >>> the e-mail forwarding. So, when the hosting is done by >>> Apache, it is expected that this service and its data will >>> be lost. >>> >>> Note, this is not so much about the addresses of the site, >>> but how name@ OO.o is forwarded when it is not >>> actually the address of part of the site (or, in the case >>> of mailing lists, even when it is). >>> </orcmid> >>> >>> >>> >>>> 2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to >>>> transfer those forwarding accounts because of rules about >>>> privacy and European trans-national data-sharing regulations. >>> >>> If you can articulate this concern more clearly, I'll forward it to >>> European >>> attorneys who can advise us. >>> >>> <orcmid> >>> The holder of a myname@ openoffice.org has a password for >>> managing this little account. In addition, the email >>> address to which myname @OO.o is forwarded is kept in >>> the account record. Other information and parameters >>> are either public or not personal. >>> If the e-mail address to which forwarding occurs is >>> considered private data, there is a concern that having >>> the list be moved into Apache custody might constitute >>> an infraction of some privacy policy or even regulatory >>> policies concerning the handling and sharing of private >>> information. >>> The current location of storage of the list and >>> operation of the forwarding service may be material >>> factors in this case. >>> </orcmid> >>> >>> >>>> There is speculation that the disruption of e-mail is tolerable >>>> and that most of the current accounts have been abandoned. >>>> That view seems to ignore the importance of these identifiers >>>> as part of the provenance structure for contributions to the >>>> open-source project and the integrity of the code base and >>>> related artifacts. >>> >>> I cannot personally judge the technical obstacles you identify, but my gut >>> tells me that we shouldn't disrupt the existing flow of Open Office >>> activities >>> simply because ownership has transferred to Apache. Nor will it be >>> reasonable >>> to ask our Infra team to manage 100K+ additional email accounts. >>> >>> Can you advise us what the minimum that has to be done in order to let Open >>> Office continue in non-crisis mode about this? >>> >>> <orcmid> >>> There are two minima that I see. >>> >>> One is to allow the forwarding system to cease operation >>> and let the breakdowns be whatever they are. >>> >>> The other is to arrange for the forwarding service to be >>> migrated along with the site and operated as part of the >>> re-hosted site still under the openoffice.org domain. >>> This will require cooperation between Oracle and Apache >>> Infrastructure. Depending on the software involved, it >>> will involve the PPMC providing technical administration >>> for the maintenance of the service. >>> >>> If the forwarding is migrated, there would be no provision >>> for adding new users. Current users would be responsible >>> for maintaining their own forwarding and, when desirable, >>> retiring their use of the myname @OO.o at their >>> convenience when there is no concern for someone attempting >>> to send mail to it or use it as the basis for some sort of >>> registration. >>> >>> This is independent from the concern about shut-down of >>> mailing lists whose names are, similarly, listname @oO.o. >>> Mailing lists and their archives are operated in an entirely >>> different way and that is a separate problem, despite >>> certain functional similarities. >>> </orcmid>. >>> >>> >>> /Larry >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:[email protected]] >>> <http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201111.mbox/%[email protected]%3e> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:00 AM >>>> To: OOo-dev Apache Incubator >>>> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen' >>>> Subject: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail addresses >>>> >>>> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, >>>> listname@ >>>> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org. Consequently, all >>>> yourname@ >>>> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes into >>>> its >>>> final stages sometime in November. >>>> >>>> I don't have a solution. I have an appraisal of the issue. It is >>>> something >>>> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, >>>> the >>>> prospect of a workable solution. >>> >>> > > > >
