On Nov 1, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Dave Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> On Nov 1, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote: >> >>> Sigh, forwarding aliases are simply rows in a >>> databasesomewhere. At one point that database >>> was owned by Oracle, and they certainly can >>> transfer it's contents to us without any concerns >>> about privacy violations. This has nothing to >>> do with mailing list subscriptions, which are >>> a completely separate issue. If Oracle doesn't >>> transfer the forward data to us, they stop working >>> altogether, and no reasonable active users are expecting >>> that to happen. OTOH I have no interest at all in >>> supporting the continued use of those forwarders >>> beyond their existence in legacy OOo applications, >>> and even there I'd like to see a reasonable and concerted >>> effort to phase them out completely over a significant >>> time period. >> >> I think most of us agree that we do not want to keep these @OOo forwarders >> around for very long. >> > > I am sorry but most of my virtual life is wired to my @ooo account. Which I > by no means want to give up. > > I wonder how many of this opinions are from people that have never used one > and have no problem thinking is not good acording to their world. For me it > would be similar to getting beheaded with a wooden knife.
I can relate. Due to an acquisition I recently had to give up my email address of 15 years. I've been thinking that a compromise might be to offer AOOo(i) committers explicit rows in the OOo forwarding table that JoeS mentioned. Regards, Dave > > >> >>> >>> >>> I didn't see anyone respond to my earlier suggestion, >>> so I fear I may have been too reasonable forthis list. >> >> Sorry, I should have. Whatever is decided you are the one who will help >> make it so! >> >> Best Regards, >> Dave >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Cc: 'Lawrence Rosen' <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:58 PM >>>> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail >> addresses >>>> >>>> <orcmid response="in-line" /> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> < >> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201111.mbox/%3c049501cc98be$68f003b0$3ad00b10$@com%3e >>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:48 >>>> To: [email protected]; 'OOo-dev Apache Incubator ' >>>> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen' >>>> Subject: RE: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail >> addresses >>>> >>>> Dennis Hamilton wrote: >>>>> There are problems concerning migration of >>>>> [email protected], [email protected], and >>>>> [email protected]. Consequently, all >>>> ? [email protected] addresses will be shut down when the >>>>> migration goes into its final stages sometime in November. >>>> >>>> Is openoffice.org going away or itself being renamed in November? I >> must have >>>> missed that announcement.... >>>> >>>> <orcmid> >>>> No, openoffice.org, the domain name, is being preserved, >>>> along with migration of the site's static content and the >>>> interactive bugzilla, wiki, and forums services. >>>> >>>> There are other services of the web site that are not >>>> being preserved. This includes mailing lists that >>>> are operated (with addresses such as users@ openoffice.org) >>>> and an e-mail forwarding and identification service >>>> using addresses like myname@ openoffice.org (not >>>> entirely unlike orcmid@ apache.org and orcmid as an ID). >>>> >>>> Some services running at the original http:// *.OO.o >>>> web locations rely on the myname and myname@ OO.o as >>>> part of an identity system. It is also the case that >>>> myname@ OO.o is a kind of widely-available vanity >>>> email address that is forwarded by the service @ OO.o. >>>> These addresses have been used, of course, as also a way >>>> to receive mail, with the myname@ OO.o forwarded to a >>>> "real" receiving address specified by the holder of >>>> myname@ OO.o. >>>> </orcmid> >>>> >>>>> 1. The presumption is that these addresses (and sometimes the >>>>> services) cannot be preserved in the migration of the >>>>> http://*.openoffice.org properties from Oracle custody to >>>>> Apache custody, even though the domain name can be preserved. >>>> >>>> I don't understand that presumption. Custody of a website has nothing >> to do >>>> with the addresses within it or accessing it. >>>> >>>> <orcmid> >>>> The problem is not with custody but with services operated >>>> at that address once the domain and the hosting is in >>>> Apache custody. The presumption is that there will be no >>>> migration of the software nor the data that supports the e-mail >>>> forwarding and the user's ability to control the destination of >>>> the e-mail forwarding. So, when the hosting is done by >>>> Apache, it is expected that this service and its data will >>>> be lost. >>>> >>>> Note, this is not so much about the addresses of the site, >>>> but how name@ OO.o is forwarded when it is not >>>> actually the address of part of the site (or, in the case >>>> of mailing lists, even when it is). >>>> </orcmid> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> 2. There is an untested presumption that it is not legal to >>>>> transfer those forwarding accounts because of rules about >>>>> privacy and European trans-national data-sharing regulations. >>>> >>>> If you can articulate this concern more clearly, I'll forward it to >> European >>>> attorneys who can advise us. >>>> >>>> <orcmid> >>>> The holder of a myname@ openoffice.org has a password for >>>> managing this little account. In addition, the email >>>> address to which myname @OO.o is forwarded is kept in >>>> the account record. Other information and parameters >>>> are either public or not personal. >>>> If the e-mail address to which forwarding occurs is >>>> considered private data, there is a concern that having >>>> the list be moved into Apache custody might constitute >>>> an infraction of some privacy policy or even regulatory >>>> policies concerning the handling and sharing of private >>>> information. >>>> The current location of storage of the list and >>>> operation of the forwarding service may be material >>>> factors in this case. >>>> </orcmid> >>>> >>>> >>>>> There is speculation that the disruption of e-mail is tolerable >>>>> and that most of the current accounts have been abandoned. >>>>> That view seems to ignore the importance of these identifiers >>>>> as part of the provenance structure for contributions to the >>>>> open-source project and the integrity of the code base and >>>>> related artifacts. >>>> >>>> I cannot personally judge the technical obstacles you identify, but my >> gut >>>> tells me that we shouldn't disrupt the existing flow of Open Office >> activities >>>> simply because ownership has transferred to Apache. Nor will it be >> reasonable >>>> to ask our Infra team to manage 100K+ additional email accounts. >>>> >>>> Can you advise us what the minimum that has to be done in order to let >> Open >>>> Office continue in non-crisis mode about this? >>>> >>>> <orcmid> >>>> There are two minima that I see. >>>> >>>> One is to allow the forwarding system to cease operation >>>> and let the breakdowns be whatever they are. >>>> >>>> The other is to arrange for the forwarding service to be >>>> migrated along with the site and operated as part of the >>>> re-hosted site still under the openoffice.org domain. >>>> This will require cooperation between Oracle and Apache >>>> Infrastructure. Depending on the software involved, it >>>> will involve the PPMC providing technical administration >>>> for the maintenance of the service. >>>> >>>> If the forwarding is migrated, there would be no provision >>>> for adding new users. Current users would be responsible >>>> for maintaining their own forwarding and, when desirable, >>>> retiring their use of the myname @OO.o at their >>>> convenience when there is no concern for someone attempting >>>> to send mail to it or use it as the basis for some sort of >>>> registration. >>>> >>>> This is independent from the concern about shut-down of >>>> mailing lists whose names are, similarly, listname @oO.o. >>>> Mailing lists and their archives are operated in an entirely >>>> different way and that is a separate problem, despite >>>> certain functional similarities. >>>> </orcmid>. >>>> >>>> >>>> /Larry >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> < >> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201111.mbox/%[email protected]%3e >>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:00 AM >>>>> To: OOo-dev Apache Incubator >>>>> Cc: 'Dave Fisher'; 'Rob Weir'; 'Lawrence Rosen' >>>>> Subject: [ISSUE] Shut-down of all name@ openoffice.org e-mail >> addresses >>>>> >>>>> There are problems concerning migration of yourname@ openoffice.org, >>>>> listname@ >>>>> openoffice.org, and servicename@ openoffice.org. Consequently, all >>>>> yourname@ >>>>> openoffice.org addresses will be shut down when the migration goes >> into >>>>> its >>>>> final stages sometime in November. >>>>> >>>>> I don't have a solution. I have an appraisal of the issue. It is >>>>> something >>>>> that requires mutual understanding and, out of our mutual attention, >>>>> the >>>>> prospect of a workable solution. >>>> >>>> >> >> > > > -- > *Alexandro Colorado* > *OpenOffice.org* Español > http://es.openoffice.org > fingerprint: E62B CF77 1BEA 0749 C0B8 50B9 3DE6 A84A 68D0 72E6
