Nil, what are your thoughts on

https://github.com/opencog/atomspace/issues/1502

?

Linas about,

***
I fully expect other opensource groups to reinvent an atomspace-like system
on top of a graph DB. They will start with a clean slate, not reusing
any atomspace
code, and probably reinventing it blisssfully unaware that the Atomspace exists.
***

Perhaps -- I mean competing options are common in the OSS world, which
is probably
as it should be

However, we are well positioned to do something in this direction
ourselves this year
also ....   At the moment Ignite seems the technology most likely to
have the flexibility
needed to make this a tractable project, but this needs to be
validated by more hands-on
exploration...

thx
ben

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 6:55 AM, Linas Vepstas <linasveps...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 7:28 AM, Ben Goertzel <b...@goertzel.org> wrote:
>>
>> We are undertaking now to port MOSES into the Atomspace (specifically
>> to make each MOSES deme an Atomspace, while leaving the
>> deme-management, feature-selection etc. code intact...)...
>
>
> I'm not sure who "we" are, in this sentence.  The reason that "we", meaning
> "me"
> did not try this in the past is that the Atomspace has a performance profile
> that
> does not fit well with the default algorithms in MOSES.  A naive port
> substituting
> template Vertex<>  by Handle could easily slow down MOSES by a factor of
> 10x or 100x.   Clearly, that's not viable. At least, not to me.
>
> One can get clever in several ways. The most obvious one is to have a
> copyin/copyout system to copy Atoms into moses-internal format, run MOSES
> for a while, and then copyout back into the atomspace.  There are other,
> more
> subtle approaches possible.
>
>
>> However as Linas notes, the intersection btw Atomspace and graph-DBs
>> is not about MOSES in particular....
>>
>> A few of us have been thinking about potentially connecting Atomspace
>> to Apache Ignite,
>
>
> Why not Redis or Riak? The issue
> https://github.com/opencog/atomspace/issues/1502
>
> describes work that needs to happen prior to a redis/riak/ignite port.
>
>>
>> so that Ignite could serve as a sort of distributed
>> backing-store, and the current Atomspace code would serve as the
>> "local cache" Atomspace on each machine in the distributed network....
>>   Ignite is an interesting beast which is a sort of middleware layer
>> between data store and application....   This is not quite the same as
>> porting Atomspace logic to a graph DB, but perhaps it's in a similar
>> spirit...
>
>
> The actual task to be done depends srtrongy on who is doing it, how
> many people are involved, and how clever they are.
>
> I fully expect other opensource groups to reinvent an atomspace-like system
> on top of a graph DB. They will start with a clean slate, not reusing any
> atomspace
> code, and probably reinventing it blisssfully unaware that the Atomspace
> exists.
>
> But if you decide to start with the existing code base, then I think
> https://github.com/opencog/atomspace/issues/1502
> spells out the preliminary groundwork that has to be accomplished, before
> you can layer it on top of Ignite (or redis, or whatever).
>
>>
>>
>> -- Ben
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 2:50 AM, Linas Vepstas <linasveps...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Not sure why you say "moses" .. it would be "atomspace" to me.
>> >
>> > Atomspace has been a kind-of graph database since forever, but there was
>> > no
>> > promotion of it as such on internet forums, and so no one ever heard of
>> > it,
>> > and things like spark/haddoop have taken over 99.99% of the mindshare
>> > and
>> > actual usage.   What to do in that world?  The atomspace still offers
>> > some
>> > neat ideas and concepts, that these other systems can't yet do ... but
>> > its
>> > only a matter of time.   So I'd say: port the atomspace to these graph
>> > db
>> > systems.
>> >
>> > --linas
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Mark Waser <mark.wa...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/fishing-for-graphs-in-a-hadoop-data-lake
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So . . . . who wants to port MOSES?
>> >>
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>> --
>> Ben Goertzel, PhD
>> http://goertzel.org
>>
>> "In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or
>> becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and
>> experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In
>> the mind, there are no limits.... In the province of connected minds,
>> what the network believes to be true, either is true or becomes true
>> within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally.
>> These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the network's
>> mind there are no limits." -- John Lilly
>>
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-- 
Ben Goertzel, PhD
http://goertzel.org

"In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or
becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and
experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In
the mind, there are no limits.... In the province of connected minds,
what the network believes to be true, either is true or becomes true
within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally.
These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the network's
mind there are no limits." -- John Lilly

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