What do you mean by Prolog not allowing trees?
ср, 18 авг. 2021 г. в 02:40, Linas Vepstas <[email protected]>:
> I spent the last week trying to convince a group of scheme enthusiasts to
> build a "database for s-expressions", which, after all is said and done, is
> all that the Atomspace is. This idea went over like a lead balloon.
>
> The primary stumbling block seems to be conceptual. People can visualize a
> database of rows and columns -- basically SQL -- very conventional. They
> can visualize a database of key-value pairs -- basically, noSQL. Also very
> popular. The idea of a JSON database is now common enough. JSON is, after
> all, a nested, hierarchical key-value store, having the form {name1:value1,
> name2:value2, ...} -- you can think of name1, name2, .. as being like
> column labels, and (value1, value2, ...) as being rows. The biggest
> difference between tables and JSON is that tables are fixed-width, with
> fixed column labels, while JSON is free-form: every JSON expression carries
> it's own labels. And, since it's hierarchical, each value can be another
> JSON expression, nesting arbitrarily deep. It's a labelled tree.
>
> When I suggested that one can store just plain s-expressions -- i.e. just
> (value1, value2, ...) without the labels ... an unlabeled tree ... this
> seemed to make people's heads explode. So my efforts, it seems, were for
> naught. Perhaps I planted a seed, though.
>
> The goal of a generic, agnostic database of s-expressions is to overcome
> the marketing problem the AtomSpace has. If some other organization could
> explain to the world what that is, and provide agnostic, generic API's, I
> think that would be a good thing. However, based on the cold reception I
> got, I'm thinking it may take another 10 years before the idea catches on.
>
> (The reception I got was "why don't you use JSON?" so I had to explain the
> problem with the labels. Once that was clear, the next suggestion was "why
> don't you use Prolog/Datalog?" I tried to explain how prolog is limited to
> crisp true/false values, and how prolog does not allow trees - it's not
> hierarchical the way s-expressions and JSON are - but this argument did not
> seem to gain traction. Somehow, just saying "it's a database of
> s-expressions" is not enough to convey the idea. People stumble on this.
> And yet, that's all that it is...)
>
> I'm saying this out loud, right here, right now, because if you are
> reading this, and you are thinking to yourself "I never quite understood
> what the atomspace is" -- well, it's that. It's a database of
> s-expressions. It's difficult to take the next step, until this first basic
> idea becomes clear. I want this first, basic idea to become clear to
> everyone.
>
> As to Hyperon -- Ben, I skimmed through everything written on Hyperon, and
> it seems (to me) like it could be "easily" implemented within the existing
> AtomSpace framework. I think this would be the right direction to move in,
> but I don't think that is possible until there is some sort of shared
> understanding about how things work, about how things could work, about
> what needs to be done. Reaching that shared understanding may require real
> work and hard thinking -- there's no magic wand of sudden enlightenment --
> but its doable. And it can be done with, ahhh talking and email. I very
> strongly encourage discussion. Let the sun shine in.
>
> -- Linas
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 3:24 PM Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> https://wiki.opencog.org/w/Hyperon
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 1:39 AM Amirouche Boubekki
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Is there a page that gathers all the publications regarding the new
>> design ?
>> >
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>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ben Goertzel, PhD
>> http://goertzel.org
>>
>> “He not busy being born is busy dying" -- Bob Dylan
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>
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