guile-log would be an ideal system as it supports overloaded unification (overloaded from scheme)
It would be nice to allow Prolog programs to be ran and maintained as Atomeese and vice versa - Douglas On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 2:51:19 PM UTC-7 linas wrote: > Hi Anatoly, > > I think it would be interesting (useful?) to write dynamic, run-time shims > between the AtomSpace and prolog (or other systems). The user would write > a small shim or conversion template, for example, something like > > :- x(y,z); <<==>> (Evaluation (Predicate X) (List (Concept Y)(Concept Z))) > > or whatever mapping the user wants, and then every time prolog needs this > info, it could fish it out of the atomspace, and vice-versa: whenever > prolog generates output, it would automatically be written into the > atomspace. > > I haven't really thought about this for prolog, but I did think about this > for external data stores. Currently, the only way to get data into the > atomspace is a giant batch import, and this can take an hour or two to run > (e.g. the agi-bio dataset). It would be nicer to do this "on demand", "as > needed". Output is likewise: instead of one big dump, just update the > remote dataset bit by bit. > > I thought about this a little bit, and I think it's doable and not that > hard. I don't have any incentive to work on this, just right now. > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 2:53 AM Anatoly Belikov <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> you can write something like that: >> *?- assert(likes('Bob', exploration('space', ('rockets'; >> 'solarsails')))).* >> true. >> >> It almost works, but I can't make prolog to return all the solutions: >> ?- likes('Bob', exploration('space', X)). >> X = (rockets;solarsails). >> >> ср, 18 авг. 2021 г. в 21:02, Linas Vepstas <[email protected]>: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM Anatoly Belikov <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What do you mean by Prolog not allowing trees? >>>> >>> >>> You can write >>> :- likes (Bob, baseball); >>> >>> but you cannot write >>> :- likes (Bob, :- exploration (space, :- or(rockets, solarsails))) >>> >>> The second example is a 3-level deep binary tree ... but is not valid >>> prolog. Of course, you can convert it into valid prolog, but then it is no >>> longer a single, deep tree, it would have to be three shallow trees. >>> >>> The game being played here is "how do you represent knowledge?" and >>> there's a whole rainbow of choices: trees and graphs and directed graphs or >>> undirected graphs or hypergraphs, .. or RDF or "semantic triples" or >>> datalog or json or tables, or whatever. And any one of these systems is >>> really enough for "anything" - you can represent knowledge with any of >>> these systems. >>> >>> The real questions become: How easy is it to use? For example, you can >>> represent "the green ball is under the couch" with "semantic triples" but >>> it becomes hard and verbose. Another example: you can represent a >>> hypergraph with just ordinary graphs, but how much extra RAM and CPU does >>> that need? If CPU and RAM were free, if it weren't for these kinds of >>> concerns, we could just layer datalog on top of Apache tinkerpop and use >>> graphQL and declare victory. >>> >>> --linas >>> >>> >>>> ср, 18 авг. 2021 г. в 02:40, Linas Vepstas <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>>> I spent the last week trying to convince a group of scheme enthusiasts >>>>> to build a "database for s-expressions", which, after all is said and >>>>> done, >>>>> is all that the Atomspace is. This idea went over like a lead balloon. >>>>> >>>>> The primary stumbling block seems to be conceptual. People can >>>>> visualize a database of rows and columns -- basically SQL -- very >>>>> conventional. They can visualize a database of key-value pairs -- >>>>> basically, noSQL. Also very popular. The idea of a JSON database is now >>>>> common enough. JSON is, after all, a nested, hierarchical key-value >>>>> store, >>>>> having the form {name1:value1, name2:value2, ...} -- you can think of >>>>> name1, name2, .. as being like column labels, and (value1, value2, ...) >>>>> as >>>>> being rows. The biggest difference between tables and JSON is that >>>>> tables >>>>> are fixed-width, with fixed column labels, while JSON is free-form: every >>>>> JSON expression carries it's own labels. And, since it's hierarchical, >>>>> each value can be another JSON expression, nesting arbitrarily deep. >>>>> It's >>>>> a labelled tree. >>>>> >>>>> When I suggested that one can store just plain s-expressions -- i.e. >>>>> just (value1, value2, ...) without the labels ... an unlabeled tree ... >>>>> this seemed to make people's heads explode. So my efforts, it seems, were >>>>> for naught. Perhaps I planted a seed, though. >>>>> >>>>> The goal of a generic, agnostic database of s-expressions is to >>>>> overcome the marketing problem the AtomSpace has. If some other >>>>> organization could explain to the world what that is, and provide >>>>> agnostic, >>>>> generic API's, I think that would be a good thing. However, based on the >>>>> cold reception I got, I'm thinking it may take another 10 years before >>>>> the >>>>> idea catches on. >>>>> >>>>> (The reception I got was "why don't you use JSON?" so I had to explain >>>>> the problem with the labels. Once that was clear, the next suggestion was >>>>> "why don't you use Prolog/Datalog?" I tried to explain how prolog is >>>>> limited to crisp true/false values, and how prolog does not allow trees >>>>> - >>>>> it's not hierarchical the way s-expressions and JSON are - but this >>>>> argument did not seem to gain traction. Somehow, just saying "it's a >>>>> database of s-expressions" is not enough to convey the idea. People >>>>> stumble on this. And yet, that's all that it is...) >>>>> >>>>> I'm saying this out loud, right here, right now, because if you are >>>>> reading this, and you are thinking to yourself "I never quite understood >>>>> what the atomspace is" -- well, it's that. It's a database of >>>>> s-expressions. It's difficult to take the next step, until this first >>>>> basic >>>>> idea becomes clear. I want this first, basic idea to become clear to >>>>> everyone. >>>>> >>>>> As to Hyperon -- Ben, I skimmed through everything written on Hyperon, >>>>> and it seems (to me) like it could be "easily" implemented within the >>>>> existing AtomSpace framework. I think this would be the right direction >>>>> to >>>>> move in, but I don't think that is possible until there is some sort of >>>>> shared understanding about how things work, about how things could work, >>>>> about what needs to be done. Reaching that shared understanding may >>>>> require >>>>> real work and hard thinking -- there's no magic wand of sudden >>>>> enlightenment -- but its doable. And it can be done with, ahhh talking >>>>> and >>>>> email. I very strongly encourage discussion. Let the sun shine in. >>>>> >>>>> -- Linas >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 3:24 PM Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> https://wiki.opencog.org/w/Hyperon >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 1:39 AM Amirouche Boubekki >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Is there a page that gathers all the publications regarding the new >>>>>> design ? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAL7_Mo_7ihMrRCZY%2BCLwAZ5KcHGqbRqwQgpOb8pLz1qY9Rj%2BSw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>>>>> http://goertzel.org >>>>>> >>>>>> “He not busy being born is busy dying" -- Bob Dylan >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBf8jVx8pxaiwvmvkf0ACJgqGQeF6X8s3E%3D%3DdXhr2sPCvA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>>>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34_UMZf-3t0giA7TZVQmXs%3DO2-aHB3sn5FC0o-6YBdzCg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34_UMZf-3t0giA7TZVQmXs%3DO2-aHB3sn5FC0o-6YBdzCg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAFj%2Bw-sueAkJQaU1C0Ef4t60FrtFG3A%3DWQk-z%2BjSM56PQzE%3Dvw%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAFj%2Bw-sueAkJQaU1C0Ef4t60FrtFG3A%3DWQk-z%2BjSM56PQzE%3Dvw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA37UtA8YZ4qrvFSYdkBSPEVZeUZP5wbyyqS8oA-3UZ4VJw%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA37UtA8YZ4qrvFSYdkBSPEVZeUZP5wbyyqS8oA-3UZ4VJw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAFj%2Bw-uc3Mnt1zFDwosk11AoM%2B%2BjkJsp_U-dtcEdHaxVR%3DtgUw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAFj%2Bw-uc3Mnt1zFDwosk11AoM%2B%2BjkJsp_U-dtcEdHaxVR%3DtgUw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > Patrick: Are they laughing at us? > Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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