Resending, because I'm not sure that everyone on the original mailing is subscribed to the mailing list. -- Linas
On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 11:50 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Ivan, > > I liked the name "Fossils" so I went ahead with that. There are now two > brand-new wiki pages: > > * https://wiki.opencog.org/w/OpenCog_Fossils > * https://wiki.opencog.org/w/OpenCog_Incubator > > For each of the fossils, I attempted to write a post-mortem: what the idea > was, what went wrong, why it didn't quite work out as hoped. I think post > mortems are good: they give you time to think over what happened, to draw > some lessons. A time to ponder how things could be done differently. > > These are wiki pages! Those who don't agree, or have something to add, or > can deduce a different set of lessons -- well, this is the time and the > place for that. > > There's one political statement in the middle of this: a proposal to layer > MeTTa on top of the AtomSpace. From what I can tell, this would be easy to > do, and, from what I've seen, you'd get a huge performance boost and > instant scalability, since the AtomSpace can deal with far larger datasets > than what Hyperon can currently handle. I know that this is an unpalatable > pill, and will be rejected out of hand, ... but perhaps it's time to think > a little more seriously about things. FWIW, the proof-of-concept is at > https://github.com/opencog/atomspace-metta > > -- Linas > > > On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 7:29 PM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello dear OC community, >> >> May I drop just an observation as an independent eye? How about something >> constructive like (based on Linas' suggestions): >> >> 1. OpenCog Genesis >> 2. OpenCog Hyperon >> >> and additionally: >> >> - OpenCog Fossils >> - OpenCog Incubator >> >> --- >> >> Use for Fossils is obvious, and relates to Linas' excellent idea. A lot >> of people tied up a valuable time in it, and holding that work in an >> archive like this would be a great. Who knows, maybe someone has a clue how >> to revive portions of those extensions. >> >> Genesis and Hyperon would be the first two incompatible versions in a row: >> >> - Genesis would be the current version (filtered at someone's wake >> eye); it already works, it already has a user base, and it is given enough >> attention not to just let it go like that; just package it right, and I'm >> sure it will have enough users. Something should be made out of it, and I >> like Linas' propositions. >> - Hyperon would be (as a product of a lot of experimentation - not to >> be disregarded) an evolutionary step from Genesis; obviously, a >> considerable amount of effort is invested in it; it is the second, but >> surely not the last step in this mainstream timeline. >> - And the following versions... boy, I can't wait to see what the >> future brings... the future is always surprisingly ingenious... >> >> >> As a potential independent contributor, I'm particularly interested in >> Incubator as a place from which all the mainstream versions would be >> updated and refreshed by extensions worth of consideration. I like the OC >> openness, but I find the current strategy too chaotic to hold everything >> together in a right place. Incubator could solve that problem in my humble >> opinion. I wish there could be a clearer connection from Incubator to >> Genesis and Hyperon in terms of GitHub, but what we have, we have, and I'm >> grateful for it. >> >> @Linas, do you have any thoughts on these suggestions or am I being too >> insolent? >> >> love, >> Ivan >> >> Dana nedjelja, 18. lipnja 2023. u 04:20:50 UTC+2 korisnik Linas Vepstas >> napisao je: >> >>> Naming and branding: >>> >>> So here's a proposal. Four things. Four names. Four brands: >>> >>> * OpenCog Classic >>> * OpenCog AtomSpace >>> * OpenCog Hyperon >>> * OpenCog Incubator >>> >>> "OpenCog Classic" consists of everything abandoned and obsolete; This >>> includes PLN, URE, Attention, SpaceTime, Ghost, Relex, R2L, ROS, >>> Eva/Sophia, MOSES (but not as-moses, see below). >>> >>> "OpenCog AtomSpace" includes: >>> -- base AtomSpace >>> -- CogServer and atomspace-cog (for networking, json, websockets) >>> -- atomspace-rocks (disk I/O subsystem) >>> -- Proxy Nodes (for data routing, replaces attention bank) >>> -- Link Grammar >>> >>> OpenCog Hyperon >>> -- the stuff you're working on >>> >>> OpenCog Incubator >>> -- atomspace-prolog proof-of-concept >>> -- chemistry proof-of-concept >>> -- agi-bio >>> -- visualization >>> -- as-moses >>> -- vision proof-of-concept >>> -- hyperon-on-top-of-atomspace proof of concept. >>> -- etc. >>> >>> The above is the branding and website design that I would like to see. >>> It makes it clear what's what, what goes where, what's alive, what's dead. >>> what's stable, what's new. what's broken, what's experimental. Does this >>> work for you? >>> >>> Two extra remarks: >>> >>> The hyperon-on-top-of-atomspace proof of concept. Not sure if you didn't >>> see the announcement, or you saw it and just hated it. I think putting >>> Hyperon on top of the AtomSpace is not too hard, and I think it might work >>> quite well, given that the code base is debugged and performance tuned. I >>> understand that the current devel crew does not care for such a thing. But >>> it is a viable path, and a kind of insurance policy. >>> >>> Link Grammar. I've been working to integrate Link Grammar more closely >>> with the base AtomSpace. It turns out that Link Grammar is a generic >>> structure parser. Or rather, is close to one, although some fair amount of >>> bending, welding and hammering is still required. I think it can be used to >>> process visual/video data, audio data, sensory data in general. Part of the >>> big deal is that link-grammar is now really really fast: Amir Plivatsy has >>> performance-tuned the heck out of it, it runs about 100x faster than it did >>> a decade ago. And since CPU's have also gotten faster, ... wow. So that is >>> the dataflow, or structure-flow idea. Converting any kind of streaming data >>> into a "streaming semantic graph" in real time. >>> >>> AS-MOSES: As a whole, it is problematic. There are a few pieces/parts >>> I'd like to rip out and breathe new life into. In particular, generic >>> "knob-turning" and deme management would be excellent stand-alone plugins >>> for the AtomSpace. I need knob-turning in order to train on video and audio >>> feeds. >>> >>> -- Linas >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 6:18 PM Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I think Linas may not care for the appellation "Classic" for the >>>> version of OpenCog he's currently developing and. using .. I don't >>>> really love it either but I just came up with it casually and have >>>> kept using it.. it was kind of a bad joke on "coca Cola Classic" >>>> really... >>>> >>>> Linas, how would you suggest we refer to the original, non-Hyperon >>>> version of OpenCog on the opencog.org site... given that we want to >>>> clearly point folks who come to the site both to a page giving >>>> resources on Hyperon, and to resources on the other original/classic >>>> OC version (e.g. the OC wiki, the Github repo, etc.) ... >>>> >>>> thanks >>>> ben >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 12:46 PM Haley Lowy >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hello Linas! >>>> > >>>> > We are planning to have our web person start with a refresh of the >>>> look and feel of the OpenCog front page - drawing largely from the content >>>> that is on the foundation site currently about the theoretical >>>> underpinnings of OpenCog and its vision and goals. We’ll then have a >>>> section that features the two versions - “Classic” (which is how we’ve been >>>> referring to the original), and “Hyperon”. We will link out to the wiki, >>>> the discord, and the google group for those who want to get involved. >>>> > >>>> > We will then, as Ben says, add a subdomain for Hyperon - we currently >>>> don’t have a good place to collect and highlight the features and progress >>>> of this project, so this page will allow us to do that. >>>> > >>>> > Mario Guzman will be doing the website design and development, and we >>>> are currently building wireframes for it, which we should be able to share >>>> early next week. We are hoping to have at least a fresh landing page and >>>> some initial resources up before AGI-23. >>>> > >>>> > What do you have in mind, and what are your goals for a new site? >>>> > >>>> > I look forward to getting to coordinate with you on this, as your >>>> passion and enthusiasm for OpenCog has been so helpful to devs and >>>> researchers who want to get involved in using this system. Thank you, >>>> > >>>> > Haley >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > On May 16, 2023, at 5:40 AM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > Hey! >>>> > > >>>> > > It seems that two parties (Haley / SNet team) and Linas are >>>> > > concurrently thinking about updating the OpenCog.org site in the >>>> near >>>> > > term... >>>> > > >>>> > > Def. this update makes sense, the site is more than a bit stale... >>>> but >>>> > > let's make sure we're coordinated here... >>>> > > >>>> > > Linas: Our plan has been to make a subdomain hyperon.opencog.org >>>> and >>>> > > use it as a main info page on Hyperon, and then insert a link on >>>> this >>>> > > on the (revised) front page. I suppose this would be compatible w/ >>>> > > whatever changes you're thinking of making? >>>> > > >>>> > > Anyway I don't want to be in the middle here communication-wise so >>>> w/ >>>> > > this email I am aiming to put Haley and Linas in direct >>>> communication >>>> > > on this! >>>> > > >>>> > > thx >>>> > > ben >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > -- >>>> > > Ben Goertzel, PhD >>>> > > [email protected] >>>> > > >>>> > > "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/f4592451-f1ff-4e73-b608-7db356e83f4dn%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/f4592451-f1ff-4e73-b608-7db356e83f4dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > Patrick: Are they laughing at us? > Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. > > > -- Patrick: Are they laughing at us? Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA35%2Bg1X8YB4WbQ7_XK_ZsorjTAJ%3DBihKKBHKMymaSL60Gw%40mail.gmail.com.
