Hi,
I'm not sure if I've managed to explain my question. I'm not asking
for how to name actual values but the parent node of data values
For instance, in adl it could look like this (selected rather randomly
from an archetype)
ELEMENT[at0001] occurrences matches {0..1} matches {
values matches {
DV_BOOLEAN matches {
value matches {true,false}
}
}
}
["at0001"] = <
text = <"Present">
description = <"Clubbing is present or absent">
>
What I'm looking for is a way to name [at0001]. If this can be solved
by a binding to a local terminology, then that's very interesting.
My new question then becomes - how can I do this?
Regards
Olof
26 nov 2008 kl. 13.38 skrev Mikael Nystr?m:
> Hi Olof,
>
> I think that you mix the archetypes? (and reference model?s)
> description of the data storage format and the display format too
> much.
>
> I don?t think that Ian mean that you must show either ?/a/b/c/
> d[at0033]g/h? nor ?Reaction pattern of the oral mucosa? for the
> users. The idea is instead that your Excel/SPSS export module or the
> visual data mining tool combine the at- or ac-codes in the
> archetypes with the terminology bindings to your local terminology.
> The benefit is that in this case we can for example use the same
> archetypes and you can view the data with your locally agreed short
> terms in V?stra G?taland and I can view the data with Descriptions
> from a SNOMED CT Subset/RefSet containing short Descriptions.
>
> Regards,
> Mikael
>
>
> From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org
> [mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org
> ] On Behalf Of Olof Torgersson
> Sent: den 26 november 2008 13:04
> To: For openEHR technical discussions
> Subject: Re: text and description
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> To explain further, our clinicians are used to working with data in
> Excel/SPSS and our own visual data mining tool.
>
> Then they compare values for different patient groups for terms/
> attributes/variables like Mucos-txtur.
>
> Displaying real names of nodes like
> /a/b/c/d[at0033]g/h, would not be understandable for clinicians.
> Displaying the rather descriptive phrases used for 'text', like
> 'Reaction pattern of the oral mucosa' would not be good either. A
> short agreed upon would be better.
>
> I have not yet been able to investigate if what you suggest is
> possible to achieve
>
> Regards
>
> Olof
> 26 nov 2008 kl. 01.43 skrev Ian McNicoll:
>
>> Hi Olef,
>>
>> I would regard 'Mucos-txtur 'as part of a local terminology and the
>> best way to handle it would be by binding this code to the natural
>> language term of the archetype node name.. i.e 'Mucosal Reaction'-
>> >Mucos-txtur.
>>
>> I am not sure of the technical/governance arrangements for using
>> such local terminologies with openEHR - can anyone advise?
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> Dr Ian McNicoll
>> office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657
>> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
>> skype ianmcnicoll
>> ian at mcmi.co.uk
>>
>> Clinical Analyst - Ocean Informatics
>> ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
>>
>> Member of BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group ? www.phcsg.org
>>
>>
>> 2008/11/25 Olof Torgersson <oloft at chalmers.se>
>> Thanks for your reply. I'll check your hints.
>>
>> A more concrete version along the same lines. I have a system
>> developed for the domain of oral medicine during a number of years.
>> During this time the clinicians involved have agreed upon names for
>> various terms (corresponding to node names I believe).
>>
>> For instance Mucos-txtur denotes the pattern of reaction of the
>> oral mucosa and has a set of possible values defined by the
>> clinicians.
>> On screen Mucos-txtur is not displayed, but a suitable phrase in
>> natural language.
>>
>> When modelling the same information in openEHR I would like to keep
>> the name Mucos-txtur, but if I do that it will be displayed on screen
>> in both the archetype and template editor as the label for the
>> input field. While this can be changed in the template editor it is
>> not really a
>> nice solution.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Olof
>>
>> 25 nov 2008 kl. 23.53 skrev Ian McNicoll:
>>
>>> Hi Olef,
>>>
>>> The text is the Node name, the Description is simply a more
>>> detailed explanation of the meaning of the node. Further term
>>> bindings are indeed possible...
>>>
>>> In the Archetype Editor, have a look at the Details tab and then
>>> at the "Node meaning in Terminologies". It is possible to bind one
>>> or more external terms to any local term in openEHR- this is
>>> a quick way of binding the node name.
>>>
>>> Also look at the Terminology Tab near the top of the screen, then
>>> Term Bindings, where any local text term can be bound to a single
>>> external term. It is also possible to bid any local term to an
>>> external termset via the Constraints tab. In the absence of any
>>> universally agreed formal method of describing termsets, this
>>> currently uses a descriptive 'placeholder' e.g is_a Cardiac Disease.
>>>
>>> Have a look in the Reference model specification for the DV_TEXT
>>> type for more detailed information on Term binding, constraints
>>>
>>> http://www.openehr.org/releases/1.0.1/architecture/rm/data_types_im.pdf
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> Dr Ian McNicoll
>>> office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657
>>> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
>>> skype ianmcnicoll
>>> ian at mcmi.co.uk
>>>
>>> Clinical Analyst - Ocean Informatics ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
>>> BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group ? www.phcsg.org
>>>
>>>
>>> 2008/11/25 Olof Torgersson <oloft at chalmers.se>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In openEHR there are two labels 'text' and 'description' used.
>>>
>>> For instance
>>>
>>> text = "Increased bowel sounds"
>>> description="Bowel sounds are more intense than normal"
>>>
>>> In the tools I have tested 'text' is used as a label to input
>>> fields.
>>>
>>> To me it would have been more natural to have 3 items, let's say
>>> 'term', 'text' and 'description' where term could be some agreed
>>> upon language independent code and text and description are
>>> localised into different languages.
>>>
>>> I guess this has been considered, but my question then is if
>>> something like this was considered what were the reasons for
>>> discarding
>>> such an approach?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Olof Torgersson
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Olof Torgersson
>>>
>>> Associate Professor
>>> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
>>> Chalmers University of Technology and G?teborg University
>>> SE-412 96 G?teborg, Sweden
>>>
>>> email: oloft at chalmers.se
>>> phone: +46 31 772 54 06
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> openEHR-technical mailing list
>>> openEHR-technical at openehr.org
>>> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical
>>>
>>>
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>>> openEHR-technical mailing list
>>> openEHR-technical at openehr.org
>>> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Olof Torgersson
>>
>> Associate Professor
>> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
>> Chalmers University of Technology and G?teborg University
>> SE-412 96 G?teborg, Sweden
>>
>> email: oloft at chalmers.se
>> phone: +46 31 772 54 06
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> openEHR-technical at openehr.org
>> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical
>>
>>
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>> openEHR-technical at openehr.org
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>
> ---
> Olof Torgersson
>
> Associate Professor
> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> Chalmers University of Technology and G?teborg University
> SE-412 96 G?teborg, Sweden
>
> email: oloft at chalmers.se
> phone: +46 31 772 54 06
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> openEHR-technical mailing list
> openEHR-technical at openehr.org
> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical
---
Olof Torgersson
Associate Professor
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Chalmers University of Technology and G?teborg University
SE-412 96 G?teborg, Sweden
email: oloft at chalmers.se
phone: +46 31 772 54 06
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