Hi Pablo, The EHR-CLUSTER archetype were created for some specific use cases, where it is necessary to record demographic information within the EHR itself, because the demographic entity is not supported by the external Demographics service, for technical or legal reasons e.g 3rd party carers or people reporting an incident or perhaps laboratory contact details.
They were developed completely separately from the formal DEMOGRAPHICS archetypes so it is not surprising that they have somewhat different structures. I agree that it would be preferable to align some of these with their Demographic equivalents but I am not sure that gives much additional benefit to implementers.. Our approach so far has been to model devices as Clusters within Entry archetypes. I have done this both for measuring devices and for other devices such as cannulae, catheters and drains. In any cases the device may have a dual role. As Heath has said, the problem with modelling the device as the clinical author is that it is the instance of the device and not the class device that needs to be the author e.g Nonen pulse oximetry 1123-456-769, rather than just Nonen Pulse oximeter. T This means creating a PARTY entry for every single actual device used in the clinical setting. There may be some added value in having a Device registry to track the physical assets but using openEHR Demographics to model this feels like a significant overhead. The device may have other use-specific attributes that need to be captured such as Entry site, location, exposed length, which definitely need to be modelled in the EHR in a specific Composition. So, although you could have a device as the clinical author, I think you will end up having a lot of information that needs to be captured in the EHR, against specific Entries. There is a case for a separate devices asset registry but the openEHR Demographics service feels like the wrong place for this. Ian On 17 June 2012 17:02, pablo pazos <pazospablo at hotmail.com> wrote: > Hi Heather! > > So the partern to follow is: if you have a demographic concept that should > be part of the clinical record, extract the internal structure to a CLUSTER > and create an slot to that. Is that the "global solution"? > > BTW, there's no device modelled as AGENT on the demographic archetypes, > shouldn't be that archetype there with an slot to the same CLUSTER? > > As an example, there is openEHR-DEMOGRAPHIC-ORGANISATION.organisation.v1 > and?openEHR-EHR-CLUSTER.organisation.v1, so I can use the CLUSTER inside an > ENTRY and inside the ORGANISATION. > The problem with those archetypes is that the ORGANIZATION doesn't reference > to the CLUSTER, and worst, they have different internal structures, Should I > report this on the CKM? (maybe there are other demographic archetypes with > the same problems). > In a couple of weeks I'll have more time, if you want I can review all the > problematic demographic archetypes, and propose to create CLUTERs for all > the internal structures, adding a slot to that CLUSTER on those demographic > archetypes. What do you think? > > > -- > Kind regards, > Ing. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez > LinkedIn: http://uy.linkedin.com/in/pablopazosgutierrez > Blog: http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/ > Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos > > ________________________________ > From: heather.leslie at oceaninformatics.com > To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org; openehr-clinical at > chime.ucl.ac.uk > Subject: RE: An ACTION or INSTRUCTION referencing an AGEN, is it possible? > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:59:16 +1000 > > > Hi Pablo, > > > > There is a CLUSTER.device archetype - > http://www.openehr.org/knowledge/OKM.html#showarchetype_1013.1.17 - plus a > CLUSTER.device_details archetype - > http://www.openehr.org/knowledge/OKM.html#showarchetype_1013.1.844 - that > might be of interest. > > These are modelled as openEHR EHR archetypes so as to be specified within > the EHR itself and already used extensively within slots for many > OBSERVATION archetypes eg OBS.blood_pressure. In addition, just as you are > suggesting, they are intended for use within the Specific Details SLOT in > the INSTRUCTION.request family of archetypes or in the Procedure Details > SLOT in the ACTION.procedure archetype, as examples. > > > > Hope this is helpful > > > > Heather > > > > From: openehr-technical-bounces at lists.openehr.org > [mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at lists.openehr.org] On Behalf Of pablo > pazos > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2012 1:11 PM > To: openehr clinical; openeh technical > Subject: An ACTION or INSTRUCTION referencing an AGEN, is it possible? > > > > I'm correcting student papers for the openEHR course in spanish. > > A student has modelled oftalmologic studies for diabetic patients, with a > demographic archetype of AGENT class to model all the devices used on the > test. > > > > It could be very usefull to let record the device information in the ACTION > archetype to say "this is the device we use for this test", or at the > INSTRUCTION archetype to say "this is the device that should be used for the > test". > > > > I'm sure some of you have solved this requirement, and I'll be very thankful > if you can enlight me, because I don't see how the information model can > solve this. > > > > Thanks a lot. > > > -- > Kind regards, > Ing. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez > LinkedIn: http://uy.linkedin.com/in/pablopazosgutierrez > Blog: http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/ > Twitter: http://twitter.com/ppazos > > > _______________________________________________ openEHR-technical mailing > list openEHR-technical at lists.openehr.org > http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org > > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-technical mailing list > openEHR-technical at lists.openehr.org > http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org -- Dr Ian McNicoll office +44 (0)1536 414 994 fax +44 (0)1536 516317 mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 skype ianmcnicoll ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com Clinical Modelling Consultant,?Ocean Informatics, UK Director openEHR Foundation ?www.openehr.org/knowledge Honorary Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL SCIMP Working Group, NHS Scotland BCS Primary Health Care ?www.phcsg.org
