On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:31 AM, Albert Cervera i Areny <alb...@nan-tic.com>wrote:
> ** > > A Divendres, 29 de juliol de 2011 17:38:53, Fabien Pinckaers va escriure: > > > Albert, > > > > > > I was not talking about nan in my email. I have a lot of respect for nan > > > which is a very good company and that share a good open source vision. > > > > > > > So, guys, don't be confused by what's being said; some activists are > > > > motivated by something else than creating a strong product and > community > > > > on OpenERP. We always hear the same people criticising, they do not > > > > represent the community. > > > > This "they want to fuck us with no real reason" is nonsense, at least > > > > if you include NaN in this. > > > > > > I do not. Why should I say that from nan, you contributed a lot and you > > > are fair on what you say. > > > > > > > I saw so much good contributors going not open when starting to talk > > > > about money (axelor, sharoon, pragtech, ...) That's why I am afraid to > > > > give a copyright to that kind of people that could lock OpenERP in the > > > > future. I fully agree with you in this. When starting to talk about > > > > money > > > > > > > >ome have tried to create closed developments, web interfaces or plugins > > > >or other applications. Even some have created a closed migration > process! > > > > > > > > You're absolutely right: "we should be afraid to give a copyright to > > > > that kind of people that could lock OpenERP in the future." > > > > > > I know we disagree on that. > > > > > > But you can not compare selling a module and selling a migration service. > > > We are not in favor of selling modules, but selling services is good for > > > theproduct. Each migration requires us several hours of work. A migration > > > service is like a bugfix or a support service, it's several hours of work > > > per request. I am sure you will discover that doing a migration costs > > > always times and money: even with the promess of tryton, you will rarely > > > succeed to migrate without wasting time on it. > > > Do they sell a module or a module + a guarantee? That would also be a > service. Anyway, we also spend time solving bugs in OpenERP in each and > every new install we make and that doesn't prevent us from working on it. > Migration is a service but not the software used to acomplish it. The same > way integration is a service but not OpenERP. Of course you're free to play > with words, yet do not accuse others of being evil for doing the same > OpenERP SA does. Or at least accuse OpenERP SA too ;-) > > > > PS: may be I should explain what you call the sensorship on the mailing > > > list. > > > We think the partner list must be moderated as we had a lot of partners > > > that unsubscribed because they say there are too much noise on the list. > > > We have mainly directors in this list, they don't want to waste time on > > > unconstructive discussions. So we often apply moderation (not sensorship) > > > to keep the list focused on business topics. We moderate: if it's a > support > > > question, technical issues on openerp, promotion of commercial offers, > > > complaints (about openerp or another partner). I would say that we > moderate > > > about 30% of the mails. > > > > > > In order to avoid frustrations like you had, we have now an automated > > > message that explains the reasons why me moderate to the author. > > > It's curious that you say that you added the automated message because of > my frustration. Non of the authors of the three e-mails that were > "moderated" was informed of that "moderation" *but* when It was me the one > that sent me an e-mail out of the scope of the mailing list I was properly > notified that the list was moderated (that happened just one or two days > after those first e-mails). It's curious that authors of innocent e-mails > like mine were notified whereas the authors of the other e-mails were not. > Specially because just a few days before you had told me that you had > received no complaints about OPW and partnership. > > > > Our goal is not to censor the community as you say. They are others > > > channel that are not moderated like the community list and the forum. > > > We just want to use the right channel for the right purpose and avoid > > > to create noise for partners. > > > Well, I don't think those e-mails were creating noise, where else shoud > partner contracts and conditions be discussed otherwise? In the thread there > were already some complaints about market regulation of training prices, for > example. Well, just to let people judge for themselves, here's the e-mail > Luis Falcon sent in the first place (sent with his permission, of course): > > > Dear partners > > Hope this time this mail gets out... I sent it last week but it seems like > it never reached the partners.... > > Let me take this opportunity to set straight my point of view and position > on the latest decisions that OpenERP is taking. > > Thymbra is TinyERP / OpenERP partner since 2005 (one of the oldest). > Lately, I started to note trends that, IMO, are not compatible with the > initial community philosophy. It is my right and duty to share them with > you, so we can solved them as soon as possible, and keep on delivering the > best Free ERP to the community. > > 1) Upgrade policies : The community is worried about the lack of > information / documentation and scripts to do the migrations. They are > right. We need NO LOCK-IN policies. I understand the OpenERP warranty > support contract is an important business line / model for you, and that is > perfect. But more important than that is the fact that companies that > install OpenERP need to have the peace of mind of being able to upgrade > their systems to the newer OpenERP releases. It would be up to them to > contract OpenERP or a partner to do it for them. Some of them might not have > the resources to do it, so, in that case, they should have the documentation > and/or tools to carry the upgrade process by themselves. > > Just imagine that upgrading GNU/Linux or Postresql would be hard, or > subjected to a support contract, OpenERP and many other great systems would > not exist today. OpenERP users should feel confident that they can grow and > keep the system updated. Of course, I'm talking about standard scenarios. If > the user has problems with the update guide or the scripts, then he has the > choice to ask the community and wait for an answer or get it solved directly > from OpenERP if he/she has the support contract. Both are equally valid > options. > > 2) CTP and market regulation issues : I am surprised on the latest > announcement of imposing a lower / bottom price of 2000 €. First of all, in > the CTP partnership clearly states that we, as partners, can put the price > that we find appropriate. This is the logic approach, since each country has > its own economic reality.You can not charge the same price in New York, > Kampala, Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo . It's not real. Moreover, we already > told the price to the interested parties, and we can not change it suddenly. > > This has nothing to do with unfair competition. On the contrary. We pay the > 15% commission, we pay in advance the student packs and so on. Now leave it > up to the partner to put the final price. This is free market and should not > be regulated. You said in one the original contract "...the CTP can decide > autonomously on the training session pricing for end customers." > > What can be expect next ? The imposition on the consulting services ?? > Please stick to the initial written document and don't change it > arbitrarily. Otherwise it looks like you wake up one day and take a > decision, announce it, and in the evening, change the whole thing again. > Please don't forget that we, as partners, are putting a lot of time, effort > and money, and are and integral part of the project. > > 3) Partner rankings : Let me paraphrase one of the sentences you had in the > previous contracts, and that reflects what I and most of the original > partners were looking for: > > "The main objective of this system is to set up a win-win relationship and > to make our partnership more valuable for both partners and Tiny ERP through > the measurement of each aspect of our collaboration. > > With this new system, a partner who write a customer success story may be > equally or more valuated than a partner who has paid a Gold Partner > Contract." > > Summing up > > 1) We need stable, long term, predictable policies that allow us to keep on > investing in OpenERP partnership. > > 2) We need clear and open documentation, with related scripts that will > enable the OpenERP upgradeprocess. > > .3) Please don't fall in the mistake of money as the only indicator. IMHO > that would be a shorted-vision policy. I read an email talking about the > eligibility of being gold partner or silver partner based on the generated > revenues. This is a discriminating policy for the developing countries > partners. Definitely money is far from being a good indicator of partnership > quality / level. If you are like many of us, who believe in Free Software as > a tool to leverage the developing countries, please don't use the revenue to > rank the partners. > I am totally agree with partners selection, you can check in my country (Ecuador) how many partners are registered and check the participation from them, i think OpenERP SA must get high quality to get a partner and just dont take money payment. This is an Open Source project and ERP business needs money, we can make works both things. Regards, > This is a constructive criticism, far from perfect, but well-intentioned > and open to discussion, from someone who has been partner, supporting and > contributing for many years and who wants the best future for OpenERP and > its community. > > Kind regards > > Luis Falcon > > Founder and CEO > > Thymbra > > > > It's a pity that those misunderstandings created frustrations between us. > > > I hope we will be able to collaborate efficiently again. > > > -- > > Albert Cervera i Areny > > http://www.NaN-tic.com > > Tel: +34 93 553 18 03 > > > http://twitter.com/albertnan > > http://www.nan-tic.com/blog > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > Post to : openerp-community@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > -- Cristian Salamea @ovnicraft
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