It's important to have some perspective on this problem, I think. First, the current AX Schema was derived, from what I understand, out of the blue (in some respects), by looking across commonly requested attributes on various signup and registration forms. While that's certainly a good place to start (i.e. doing research and cataloging your findings (which seem to not exist for AX Schema, but whatever)), the creators seemed to have completely ignored existing profile and contact formats.
Portable Contacts was designed to avoid that mistake — inheriting the primary schema from vcard (the leading open standard for contact information for easily the last decade — giving it wide support and adoption in cell phones and existing address books) and including the somewhat-wonky OpenSocial schema (in order to facilitate adoption). There is of course an effort to rev vCard again, and the work that that group is doing appears disconnected and largely irrelevant, reinventing attributes rather than codifying what is already being done. In any case, there is a more important primary question that we need to ask ourselves in the current discussion: what is actually open for discussion, and to be changed? What is the scope of this work? Are we okay with an outcome where only a subset of a subset of the marketplace adopts the conventions that we support, or is it more important to get broad and widespread marketplace adoption? To Paul's point — it's easy to invent schema, as many have already done before. It's harder to gain adoption, especially the more complicated and specific you make them. While I'd like to have Nat's use cases addressed, especially from an international perspective, there is a need to put such a discussion in a broader context of wider interoperability and recognizing the work that has come before — because OpenID is not about to solve the profile schema problem once and for all — but it can amplify the results of prior efforts. Chris On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Paul Trevithick <[email protected]>wrote: > I too am a confused about scope. Schemas are usually designed for some > purpose. And history shows that the narrower the simpler the schema the > higher the likelihood of broad adoption. > > On 12/9/09 2:17 AM, "Nat Sakimura" <[email protected]> wrote: > > David, > > PoCo seems to be only for contacts. Attributes are not just contacts but > bunch of other things as well. > > Even within the "contacts", it is missing out things like phonetics > (e.g., furigana), sort order, etc. > It does not seem to have had a lot of international exposure. > > Also, by just briefly scanning, I can point out that current proposal > does not have email classes like MMS/SMS/mobile phone etc. which are > very commonly asked attribute in Japan. Many sites refuses to provide > service without it. I bet there are other things from European point of > view etc. > > IMHO, we should define those attribute URL in an Open Forum with a clear > process and a lot of international participation. > > =nat > > (2009/12/09 11:56), David Recordon wrote: > > Hey Nat, > > I guess I'm wondering what is missing from the PoCo schema that we've > > seen the need for within the OpenID ecosystem? It seems really rich > > already. > > > > I don't think that IPR is an issue around a schema, but would also be > > happy to have Facebook do an OWF agreement if it was deemed necessary. > > That said, we should focus on making sure this solves the problem of > > profile data adoption first! :) > > > > --David > > > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Nat Sakimura<[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Looks nice. > >> What is the process for adding more? > >> I would like to add more like phonetic field for names and addresses. > >> (In Japanese, we call them "furigana". Without them, we do not know > >> how to read in many cases nor the sort order.) > >> Also, I feel that portablecontacts.net is a bit long... > >> Is portablecontacts only for the contact data or trying to be a general > >> schema repository like axschema? Is there any consensus in which > direction > >> we should head to? > >> What is the IPR implication? > >> =nat > >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Chris Messina<[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Done. > >>> https://portablecontacts.pbworks.com/schema > >>> > >>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Joseph Smarr<[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Looks great to me, the only thing missing is sub-fields of complex > fields > >>>> like name, address, organization, and account. I would suggest using > another > >>>> level of slashes, e.g. > >>>> http://portablecontacts.net/ns/1.0/address/streetAddress and > >>>> http://portablecontacts.net/ns/1.0/name/familyName and so on. > >>>> > >>>> Chris-can you take a stab at adding those missing sub-fields? Then I > >>>> think we'd be good to go. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, js > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: Chris Messina > >>>> [mailto:[email protected]<[email protected]> > ] > >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 6:40 PM > >>>> To: David Recordon > >>>> Cc: SitG Admin; [email protected]; Joseph Smarr > >>>> Subject: Re: specs Digest, Vol 40, Issue 11 > >>>> > >>>> I've taken a crack at URLizing these attributes for use in Attribute > >>>> Exchange: > >>>> https://portablecontacts.pbworks.com/schema > >>>> If there are comments or feedback for improving this, let me know. I'm > an > >>>> XML noob. > >>>> Chris > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:05 PM, David Recordon<[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> It's missing out on the idea of having a schema which can cross > >>>>> contexts. Right now each schema – with the exception of AXSchema.org > >>>>> – has no concept of namespaces and stands alone. We've always wanted > >>>>> a schema which uses URLs to identify each element, but there haven't > >>>>> been any. Maybe Portable Contacts wants to take this on since it is > >>>>> also used by OpenSocial? > >>>>> > >>>>> --David > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Chris Messina< > [email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I did this in June: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pSGbbhtwI4kN_nJ1GXeQ7Qg&output=html > >>>>>> I just wish someone would actually use it! > >>>>>> Chris > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:02 PM, SitG Admin > >>>>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I'm specifically pointing out that AXSchema reinvents vcard and a > >>>>>>>> host of > >>>>>>>> other profile formats, which adds yet another burden for > developers > >>>>>>>> to map > >>>>>>>> other schema, like Portable Contacts, to the AXSchema. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Could these other profile formats be mapped, on an alias, to a set > of > >>>>>>> AXScheme that collectively mirror each format? As in, "vcard" alias > >>>>>>> maps to > >>>>>>> a set of AXSchema that actually just mirror 'vcard' format. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -Shade > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Chris Messina > >>>>>> Open Web Advocate > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Personal: http://factoryjoe.com > >>>>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Citizen Agency: http://citizenagency.com > >>>>>> Diso Project: http://diso-project.org > >>>>>> OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This email is: [ ] shareable [X] ask first [ ] private > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> specs mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Chris Messina > >>>> Open Web Advocate > >>>> > >>>> Personal: http://factoryjoe.com > >>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina > >>>> > >>>> Citizen Agency: http://citizenagency.com > >>>> Diso Project: http://diso-project.org > >>>> OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net > >>>> > >>>> This email is: [ ] shareable [X] ask first [ ] private > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Chris Messina > >>> Open Web Advocate > >>> > >>> Personal: http://factoryjoe.com > >>> Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina > >>> > >>> Citizen Agency: http://citizenagency.com > >>> Diso Project: http://diso-project.org > >>> OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net > >>> > >>> This email is: [ ] shareable [X] ask first [ ] private > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> specs mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Nat Sakimura (=nat) > >> http://www.sakimura.org/en/ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> specs mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > specs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs > > > > > -- > Nat Sakimura ([email protected]) > Nomura Research Institute, Ltd. > Tel:+81-3-6274-1412 Fax:+81-3-6274-1547 > > _______________________________________________ > specs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs > > > _______________________________________________ > specs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs > > -- Chris Messina Open Web Advocate Personal: http://factoryjoe.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina Citizen Agency: http://citizenagency.com Diso Project: http://diso-project.org OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net This email is: [ ] shareable [X] ask first [ ] private
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