Dick - it seems like you may be conflating authentication with identity.  
OpenID Connect provides a framework for multiple claims issuers.  I believe the 
claims aggregation and distributed claims capabilities in Connect provide the 
potential to scale your interested in.  

- cmort

On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:16 PM, "Dick Hardt" <[email protected]> wrote:

> John: IMHO: The only significant feature that OpenID 2.0 and OpenID Connect 
> have in common is the word "OpenID"
> 
> For me, user-centric is less about empowering the user, and much more about 
> how we can scale past one IdP.
> 
> -- Dick
> 
> On 2011-07-20, at 4:22 PM, John Kemp wrote:
> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>> 
>>> One of the bad habits of that period was the excessive generation of 
>>> jargon. By the end I think that everyone was thoroughly confused. I would 
>>> ditch the term entirely and instead use "user centric communication 
>>> pattern", it takes more characters but it is apparent to everyone that we 
>>> are talking about the same thing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The term User Focused is not taken as far as I know. That is what I am 
>>> arguing for. A User Focused approach is highly likely to have a user 
>>> centric communication pattern.
>> 
>> With all due respect, I would personally not wish to restart the jargon 
>> wars, and I think we're moving far away from the original point of this 
>> thread by discussing the meaning of "user-centric". 
>> 
>> Personally I was just trying to discover what is different about BrowserID 
>> when compared to OpenID (Connect *or* 2.0). I can't see very much different 
>> really in how we expect users to play a role in the protocol. I do think its 
>> good that the verification of a user's email address actually being used by 
>> the user is made possible by the properties of the identifier, but I can't 
>> see much else that commends BrowserID over OpenID, and some people may even 
>> think it a bad thing that the user identifier has properties other than that 
>> of being an identifier (ie. it can be used to send email to the user) - and 
>> I think that's a valid concern which may outweigh the convenience of easy 
>> verification of the link from the identifier to the user. 
>> 
>> All these technologies *might* properly respect the wishes of the user if 
>> implemented that way (and there may even be multiple ways to do that). Why 
>> should they not be implemented that way? It's not a technical problem, as 
>> far as I can tell. 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> - John
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Dick Hardt <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Phillip
>>> 
>>> The term was defined and used in literature and by analysts 6 or 7 years 
>>> ago.
>>> 
>>> Many assumed it meant the user was in control or the focus -- I find that 
>>> definition misleading and hides the significant scale advantages of the 
>>> architecture. I just realized that my old blog is offline, where I had 
>>> defined the term in the past. Hmmm, perhaps time to pull that off the shelf 
>>> and polish it up again.
>>> 
>>> -- Dick
>>> 
>>> On 2011-07-20, at 12:24 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I think we should make the term user centric mean what it appears to mean 
>>>> - make the user the focus of the design.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the ways in which OpenID lost its way was the obsession with making 
>>>> it easy for bloggers to deploy and even weirder for people to be able to 
>>>> set up Idps. Both of these came across as much higher priorities in the 
>>>> design than the user experience.
>>>> 
>>>> It should not be unnecessarily hard for bloggers to add support for an 
>>>> Identity protocol, but that should not be a higher goal than the user and 
>>>> in particular support for legacy versions of platform infrastructure seems 
>>>> like it should be a non-issue.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> One consequence of this approach is that you want to make sure that the 
>>>> user is able to control all the flows of information that affect them and 
>>>> that when things break the user should know where and why. That in turn 
>>>> tends towards a protocol architecture where the user is in the hub of all 
>>>> the protocol message flows but I would see that as a (minor) technical 
>>>> consequence of the deeper philosophical approach.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On the account identifier approach, I stand by the assertion that the user 
>>>> should recognize their account by means of an identifier of the form 
>>>> [email protected] where idp-service.com is the DNS name of the 
>>>> service provider.
>>>> 
>>>> Now it may be useful to bind claims referring to other accounts with that 
>>>> form, but that is a separate matter.
>>>> 
>>>> When the user types in something into a client to configure their service, 
>>>> the string should be [email protected].
>>>> 
>>>> Then when they go to the idp-service.com site to configure their service 
>>>> they might bind their gmail and yahoo accounts to it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> One other consequence of being user-centric is that it allows for a two 
>>>> point deployment model. I am currently working on an account management 
>>>> protocol that allows me to manage all my usernames and passwords for all 
>>>> of my sites from any browser I have authorized to have access. 
>>>> 
>>>> In this scheme I don't care whether the Huffington Post supports my 
>>>> protocol or not. They don't get a choice. I am storing my username and 
>>>> password for the huffpost in my chosen cloud because that is a very low 
>>>> value data resource to me and I could not give a flying monkey if it is 
>>>> compromised. I just don't care. 
>>>> 
>>>> Now my Fidelity account is another matter. There I care quite a lot. I am 
>>>> not going to put a raw password in there but I might allow it to be used 
>>>> as an additional factor.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> So in this scheme I will occasionally need to bind a client running on a 
>>>> new machine to the service. And this is one of the few times that I need 
>>>> to expose that account identifier. I give the identifier to the client, 
>>>> authorize the binding using my second factor confirmation and the client 
>>>> is then bound by a public keypair that is unique to that device and cannot 
>>>> be exported.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Website: http://hallambaker.com/
>>> 
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