Per Mike's comments, I don't see where the UX for multiple claims
happens - or is there a spec I'm missing?

-- Dick

On 2011-07-20, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Mortimore <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dick - it seems like you may be conflating authentication with identity.  
> OpenID Connect provides a framework for multiple claims issuers.  I believe 
> the claims aggregation and distributed claims capabilities in Connect provide 
> the potential to scale your interested in.
>
> - cmort
>
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:16 PM, "Dick Hardt" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> John: IMHO: The only significant feature that OpenID 2.0 and OpenID Connect 
>> have in common is the word "OpenID"
>>
>> For me, user-centric is less about empowering the user, and much more about 
>> how we can scale past one IdP.
>>
>> -- Dick
>>
>> On 2011-07-20, at 4:22 PM, John Kemp wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>>>
>>>> One of the bad habits of that period was the excessive generation of 
>>>> jargon. By the end I think that everyone was thoroughly confused. I would 
>>>> ditch the term entirely and instead use "user centric communication 
>>>> pattern", it takes more characters but it is apparent to everyone that we 
>>>> are talking about the same thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The term User Focused is not taken as far as I know. That is what I am 
>>>> arguing for. A User Focused approach is highly likely to have a user 
>>>> centric communication pattern.
>>>
>>> With all due respect, I would personally not wish to restart the jargon 
>>> wars, and I think we're moving far away from the original point of this 
>>> thread by discussing the meaning of "user-centric".
>>>
>>> Personally I was just trying to discover what is different about BrowserID 
>>> when compared to OpenID (Connect *or* 2.0). I can't see very much different 
>>> really in how we expect users to play a role in the protocol. I do think 
>>> its good that the verification of a user's email address actually being 
>>> used by the user is made possible by the properties of the identifier, but 
>>> I can't see much else that commends BrowserID over OpenID, and some people 
>>> may even think it a bad thing that the user identifier has properties other 
>>> than that of being an identifier (ie. it can be used to send email to the 
>>> user) - and I think that's a valid concern which may outweigh the 
>>> convenience of easy verification of the link from the identifier to the 
>>> user.
>>>
>>> All these technologies *might* properly respect the wishes of the user if 
>>> implemented that way (and there may even be multiple ways to do that). Why 
>>> should they not be implemented that way? It's not a technical problem, as 
>>> far as I can tell.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> - John
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Dick Hardt <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Phillip
>>>>
>>>> The term was defined and used in literature and by analysts 6 or 7 years 
>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>>> Many assumed it meant the user was in control or the focus -- I find that 
>>>> definition misleading and hides the significant scale advantages of the 
>>>> architecture. I just realized that my old blog is offline, where I had 
>>>> defined the term in the past. Hmmm, perhaps time to pull that off the 
>>>> shelf and polish it up again.
>>>>
>>>> -- Dick
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-07-20, at 12:24 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think we should make the term user centric mean what it appears to mean 
>>>>> - make the user the focus of the design.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the ways in which OpenID lost its way was the obsession with 
>>>>> making it easy for bloggers to deploy and even weirder for people to be 
>>>>> able to set up Idps. Both of these came across as much higher priorities 
>>>>> in the design than the user experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> It should not be unnecessarily hard for bloggers to add support for an 
>>>>> Identity protocol, but that should not be a higher goal than the user and 
>>>>> in particular support for legacy versions of platform infrastructure 
>>>>> seems like it should be a non-issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One consequence of this approach is that you want to make sure that the 
>>>>> user is able to control all the flows of information that affect them and 
>>>>> that when things break the user should know where and why. That in turn 
>>>>> tends towards a protocol architecture where the user is in the hub of all 
>>>>> the protocol message flows but I would see that as a (minor) technical 
>>>>> consequence of the deeper philosophical approach.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On the account identifier approach, I stand by the assertion that the 
>>>>> user should recognize their account by means of an identifier of the form 
>>>>> [email protected] where idp-service.com is the DNS name of the 
>>>>> service provider.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now it may be useful to bind claims referring to other accounts with that 
>>>>> form, but that is a separate matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> When the user types in something into a client to configure their 
>>>>> service, the string should be [email protected].
>>>>>
>>>>> Then when they go to the idp-service.com site to configure their service 
>>>>> they might bind their gmail and yahoo accounts to it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One other consequence of being user-centric is that it allows for a two 
>>>>> point deployment model. I am currently working on an account management 
>>>>> protocol that allows me to manage all my usernames and passwords for all 
>>>>> of my sites from any browser I have authorized to have access.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this scheme I don't care whether the Huffington Post supports my 
>>>>> protocol or not. They don't get a choice. I am storing my username and 
>>>>> password for the huffpost in my chosen cloud because that is a very low 
>>>>> value data resource to me and I could not give a flying monkey if it is 
>>>>> compromised. I just don't care.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now my Fidelity account is another matter. There I care quite a lot. I am 
>>>>> not going to put a raw password in there but I might allow it to be used 
>>>>> as an additional factor.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So in this scheme I will occasionally need to bind a client running on a 
>>>>> new machine to the service. And this is one of the few times that I need 
>>>>> to expose that account identifier. I give the identifier to the client, 
>>>>> authorize the binding using my second factor confirmation and the client 
>>>>> is then bound by a public keypair that is unique to that device and 
>>>>> cannot be exported.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Website: http://hallambaker.com/
>>>>
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