Sorry, I should have worded my email better, my intent was only to advise that 
for high level API usage questions, IMO you will probably get the best answers 
on StackOverflow (and many things are answered there already).

Agreed that the low level discussion things affecting implementation are good 
here (especially anything specific to the direct LWJGL/OpenGL/JavaFX 
integration).

From: Mario Torre [mailto:neugens.limasoftw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 1:33 PM
To: John Smith
Cc: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net; Exo Verse
Subject: RE: JavaFX 2 + with LWJGL ( OpenGL )


I don't know, most of this thread is about things that seems low level enough 
to warrant a discussion on this list, we can forgive one or two "usage" related 
questions, no?

Cheers,
Mario
Il 07/apr/2014 22:11 "John Smith" 
<john_sm...@symantec.com<mailto:john_sm...@symantec.com>> ha scritto:
Hi Exo,

For general JavaFX usage questions, stackoverflow or the Oracle JavaFX forums 
are probably a better place to ask than the openjfx-dev mailing list.

See for example:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18792822/dragging-an-undecorated-stage-in-javafx
https://community.oracle.com/community/developer/english/java/javafx/javafx_2.0_and_later

Regards,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: openjfx-dev 
[mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net<mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net>]
 On Behalf Of Exo Verse
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 9:53 AM
To: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net<mailto:openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net>
Subject: Re: JavaFX 2 + with LWJGL ( OpenGL )

Ahh yes, the lwjglfx solution. Yes it is ingenious what they guy did. I would 
have to draw to an image anyhow with other GUI designs, so this is no 
different. And with a buffer, you would only need to update it IF the GUI has 
changed. If no change, then you just use the buffer in OpenGL to paste the GUI 
image back to the screen in a 3D space instead of worrying about 2D. No need to 
worry about FPS dropping either. His approach needs work, but the point of his 
exercise is to prove its doable.

I am at another loss though. I am trying to make my window in JavaFX CLICKHOLD 
and DRAGGABLE.. not a control within it.. The actual window itself. Ideas ? My 
whole source code in a previous post is there if you want to see what I have so 
far. Although you will need to make a 800x600 image to get it to work. ( NOTE : 
 Any image for testing purposes would work. )

Torak


On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Stephen F Northover < 
steve.x.northo...@oracle.com<mailto:steve.x.northo...@oracle.com>> wrote:

> The lwjglfx solution.
>
> Steve
>
>
> On 2014-04-07 12:45 PM, Exo Verse wrote:
>
>> @ Steve
>> Which approach are you referring too ? The lwjglfx solution or this
>> transparency background solution ?
>>
>> The lwjglfx I am assuming here since its drawing out to an image and
>> back in again. But if your speaking about my transparency issue I
>> solved, I didn't realize it was sending out to an image and back
>> again. Could you please elaborate as to which solution your speaking about ?
>>
>> Torak
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen F Northover <
>> steve.x.northo...@oracle.com<mailto:steve.x.northo...@oracle.com>> wrote:
>>
>>  This solution is cool, but it draws to an image, sucks out the bits
>> and
>>> then converts that to an FX image.  This is a good approach because
>>> it uses API and does not rely on any internals of FX. Hopefully it
>>> is fast enough for you.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2014-04-06 12:41 PM, Exo Verse wrote:
>>>
>>>  Yea the OpenGL comes with your graphics drivers for your video
>>> card. So
>>>> your correct that it doesn't ship with JavaFX. What I have been
>>>> going on about is trying to find a way to use JavaFX with LWJGL. In
>>>> case you are unaware, LWJGL just means "Light Weight Java OpenGL"
>>>> and its a wrapper for the OpenGL API. It's an alternative to JOGL.
>>>>
>>>> On another note, as I did a search, Thanks to Tom showing me that
>>>> link I examined that code and I found something of interest in the
>>>> JOGL code interface..  well it lead me to a google search, and
>>>> viola..  LWJGL with JavaFX. :)
>>>>
>>>> LINK :
>>>> https://github.com/Spasi/LWJGL-FX
>>>>
>>>> So just wanted to post the link here and say thanks for all of your
>>>> help.
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Torak
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Tom Schindl <
>>>> tom.schi...@bestsolution.at<mailto:tom.schi...@bestsolution.at>
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>   JavaFX does not ship OpenGL binaries on windows you have to build
>>>> it your
>>>>
>>>>> own.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note:
>>>>> a) if there are people who manage to write a prism pipeline on
>>>>> jogl why should you not be able to do the same with lwjgl?
>>>>> b) the talk i mentionned from felipe and steve show how to get
>>>>> access to the native OpenGL context and there from you can use any
>>>>> API you like can't remember which one they used
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom
>>>>>
>>>>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>>>>>
>>>>>   Am 06.04.2014<tel:06.04.2014> um 18:18 schrieb Exo Verse 
>>>>> <tora...@gmail.com<mailto:tora...@gmail.com>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, but as I mentioned in my original post, I don't like
>>>>>> JOGL. It doesn't work with my setup. I use LWJGL because its only
>>>>>> about the OpenGL and not other libraries, and its an easy API
>>>>>> wrapper to use. There are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  many
>>>>>
>>>>>  many reason I hate JOGL.. but this thread is not about hating on
>>>>> JOGL,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  its
>>>>>
>>>>>  about finding a way to use LWJGL with JavaFX2+.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Win32 API calls can use both DirectX and OpenGL APIs. And
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  doesn't
>>>>>
>>>>>  matter what Windows OS you're using. I have tested this out from
>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  XP
>>>>>
>>>>>  all the way to Windows 7 - 32/64 Bit with no problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Torak
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Tom Schindl <
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  tom.schi...@bestsolution.at<mailto:tom.schi...@bestsolution.at>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  There is a talk from Felipe and Steve at J1 last year how to
>>>>> embed
>>>>>> OpenGL
>>>>>> into FX using *internal* API!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Search for it on parleys - this does not help you on Win32 which
>>>>>>> uses directx instead of javafx. BTW there are people doing a
>>>>>>> JOGL pipeline https://bitbucket.org/dejayberlin/joglfxpipeline/src!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Am 06.04.2014<tel:06.04.2014> um 17:25 schrieb Exo Verse 
>>>>>>> <tora...@gmail.com<mailto:tora...@gmail.com>>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yea its a shame that using JavaFX as an option along with
>>>>>>>> OpenGL wasn't even thought of to begin with. I don't understand
>>>>>>>> why they limit you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> they do. Them trying to recreate the wheel and make their own
>>>>>> version
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3D interface is just plain stupid if it can't run low level. I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  2D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> games and applications with a LOT of usage for JavaFX and its 2D
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> graphics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> API. But True 3D needs low level other wise its a waste of time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, thanks for the replies. Guess I'll have to stick with
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> sources for my GUI. It's just that I like JavaFX version of its
>>>>>>>> GUI
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  because
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  it is so simple to use. But not worth it if you can't use it
>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  reason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  that we the people need it for. Like in my case, game dev.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>>>>> Torak
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Philipp Dörfler <
>>>>>>>> phdoerf...@gmail.com<mailto:phdoerf...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   It is not possible to combine JavaFX and OpenGL as it is
>>>>>>>> right now.
>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> was discussed on this mailing list some time before as a
>>>>>>> _possible_
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>> addition, but I'd be very surprised if Oracle actually chose to
>>>>>>>> implement this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Starting with JavaFX 8 there is indeed some kind of "3D support"
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3D API allows only for the most basic operations. It is still
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> scene graph based and you have to live with all restrictions
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JavaFX
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> imposes on you. Not wanting to say that the 3D API is completely
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> useless,
>>>>>>>> but I'm afraid that even WPF is more flexible when it comes to
>>>>>>>> 3D than
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JavaFX is. For example: As far as I know you can not even
>>>>>>>>> change the shading model from GL_SMOOTH to GL_FLAT. You could
>>>>>>>>> work around that by setting the normals yourself though (Same
>>>>>>>>> for WPF). Also render
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  quality
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bad when you render an instance of Text in 3D and scale it down
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> example. At least it was when I tried that last time (few
>>>>>>>>> months ago).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Again, not to say that one can't work with JavaFX's 3D API,
>>>>>>>>> but it's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  not
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> raw OpenGL either. As far as I know the JavaFX team wants to be
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the user use his own OpenGL context and let JavaFX render on top
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> that or
>>>>>>>> add the possibility to ask JavaFX for the underlying context
>>>>>>>> and mess with that but this is not even officially planned or
>>>>>>>> included on any roadmap
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (AFAIK) so we can only keep our fingers crossed for that to happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you I would absolutely LOVE to use JavaFX as a GUI on top of my
>>>>>> OpenGL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> games.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>> Philipp Dörfler
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   Am 06.04.2014<tel:06.04.2014> um 16:31 schrieb Exo Verse 
>>>>>>>>> <tora...@gmail.com<mailto:tora...@gmail.com>>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can you please explain what True 3D means in terms of Low
>>>>>>>>>> Level API ?
>>>>>>>>>> Because with LWJGL I can use Low Level API to talk directly
>>>>>>>>>> to my
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Video
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Card. As a game dev, I need every ounce of umph from the card I
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> get,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and using a browser or any other kind of wrapper hasn't proven
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> efficient. I love LWJGL because of its simplicity. Anything
>>>>>>>>> extra I
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  need, I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  am allowed to make on my own. Example, my own Game Engine.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And that is where I am at. So if your speaking about Nodes, I
>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  aware
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> there is a hierarchy to the JavaFX2 when setting up the GUI,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the only thing I knew existed. Could you please elaborate what
>>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JavaFX8 a True 3D Low Level interface API ? Because from the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  presentation,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  you have to go through two layers before you have to get to
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  OpenGL
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> layer. Where as if I can use LWJGL, I can skip a level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I am misinformed on something, please, explain. Because I am
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JavaFX.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Torak
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Hervé Girod <
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> herve.gi...@gmail.com<mailto:herve.gi...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   With Java 8 (JavaFX 8), you now have true 3D Nodes, with
>>>>>>>>>> camera,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> texturing, etc... However it would still be very interesting
>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  able
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> control the low-level rendering of JavaFX, such as using LWJGL
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> example.
>>>>>>>>>> This would allow to render JavaFx content in an external
>>>>>>>>>> OpenGL context
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> example.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hervé
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   On 6 avr. 2014, at 14:42, Exo Verse 
>>>>>>>>>>> <tora...@gmail.com<mailto:tora...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, I have been working with OpenGL and LWJGL for over 5
>>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  now.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> want to switch over to using JavaFX 2, because of its GUI
>>>>>>>>> abilities
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> still use LWJGL with it. But I can't seem to find a way to do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this. I
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> saw a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 hour video that described the features of JavaFX 2 and it even
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  shown
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> layout..  OpenGL was there at the bottom with D3D with Prism
>>>>>>>>> above
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  both
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> them in the hierarchy. I have searched the web and I can't
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  prism,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> can't find info on how to talk to opengl and I can't find any
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> tutorials
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> anywhere. So I am posting here to see what I can find. I do
>>>>>>>>>> NOT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> JOGL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I prefer LWJGL. So far, the only thing related to 3D with
>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> JavaFX
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is the very resource intensive Canvas3D, which I can't stand.
>>>>>>> Any
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  ideas ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it not implemented yet and its on its way ? I'm trying to
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can about this. If there is nothing for LWJGL, then I can't
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  JavaFX.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Torak
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>

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