On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Michael Berry <berry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7 June 2016 at 23:57, Tomas Mikula <tomas.mik...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Michael Berry <berry...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 7 June 2016 at 23:30, Tomas Mikula <tomas.mik...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Michael Berry <berry...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 7 June 2016 at 23:04, Tomas Mikula <tomas.mik...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What about forgetting the whole notion of a "default button" and the >>>>>> only >>>>>> effect of setting the default property to true being that the button >>>>>> will >>>>>> start as focused? >>>>>> >>>>>> So I add a question: >>>>>> >>>>>> 3) Would anyone miss the "default button"? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Afraid I would - I find the visual difference of the default button >>>>> rather useful. >>>>> >>>> >>>> The visual difference is also what is confusing when there is also a >>>> focused button. Maybe they should then lose its visual distinction when a >>>> different button is focused (at least in Jonathan's point 2) - non-OS >>>> X platforms). >>>> >>> >>> Perhaps this is just a pure difference of opinion - I find the visual >>> distinction helpful because it provides a cue (from a UX perspective) as to >>> which button the user can be expected to hit in "normal" behaviour. This, >>> in my mind, is very different from the (much more subtle) cue that shows >>> the currently focused UI component. >>> >> >> If Jonathan's plan is executed: >> >> > 2) On non-OS X platforms, we change the behavior so that Enter (and >> Space) will fire the _focused_ key, if one is focused. >> >> then any visual cues on the "default" button are misleading (while a >> different button is focused, that is), since it will not be triggered on >> either Enter or Space. >> > > Not necessarily. You're assuming (rightly or wrongly) that the visual cue > here creates the expectation that a particular key, either enter or space, > should activate it. > That was my assumption, indeed. And I wonder how many users make the same assumption. > > In my case, the visual cue simply indicates that it is the preferred, > default, or most common option for a user to press, without implying a > relation to any particular hotkey. > > >> >> Tomas >> >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Tomas >>>> >>>> >>>>> While it would be possible to just use CSS to style it differently, >>>>> this (in my mind) would be a step backwards (and that's before the issues >>>>> that would arise from a backwards-compatibility standpoint due to removing >>>>> an existing property.) >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tomas >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Jonathan Giles < >>>>>> jonathan.gi...@oracle.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > Hi all, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > One thing I've been looking into recently is the issue of what the >>>>>> Enter >>>>>> > key should do when it is pushed with regards to buttons in a UI >>>>>> where one >>>>>> > of those buttons is a 'default' button. There are number of Jira >>>>>> issues on >>>>>> > this topic, and I wanted to poll the community to understand its >>>>>> opinions. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The current situation is that the Enter key does not fire the >>>>>> focused >>>>>> > Button. The Enter key is reserved for firing the 'default' Button >>>>>> in the UI >>>>>> > (i.e. if someone has created a Button instance with the default >>>>>> property >>>>>> > set to true). A default button is rendered slightly differently (in >>>>>> Modena >>>>>> > it is blue for example). To fire the focused Button, the user must >>>>>> press >>>>>> > the Space key. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Tom Schindl filed a bug (JDK-8139510) that is a good example of the >>>>>> > 'problem' this creates. In the bug report, a dialog is shown to the >>>>>> user. >>>>>> > In the dialog is an OK button and a Cancel button. The OK button >>>>>> has been >>>>>> > made the 'default' button. Regardless of which button has focus, >>>>>> the Enter >>>>>> > key always fires the OK button. The only way to fire the Cancel >>>>>> button is >>>>>> > via the Space key. This can be very confusing for users who have >>>>>> tabbed >>>>>> > specifically to the 'Cancel' button and then pressed the Enter key, >>>>>> only to >>>>>> > find they unwittingly fired the 'OK' action. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > To me this has always been a little counter-intuitive, because of my >>>>>> > heritage as a long-time Windows user. I believe Linux is much the >>>>>> same as >>>>>> > Windows. For others who grew up on Mac, I'm less sure on what >>>>>> people expect >>>>>> > (but it seems to be that the Enter key fires the default button, >>>>>> not the >>>>>> > focused button, i.e. JavaFX current behavior matches what is >>>>>> expected on OS >>>>>> > X). >>>>>> > >>>>>> > What I'm proposing we do is to change the behavior as follows: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 1) On OS X we do not change behavior at all - we keep the current >>>>>> 'Enter >>>>>> > means default' and 'Space means focus' semantics. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2) On non-OS X platforms, we change the behavior so that Enter (and >>>>>> Space) >>>>>> > will fire the _focused_ key, if one is focused. If no Button is >>>>>> focused >>>>>> > (e.g. focus is in a TextField, etc), then Enter will work as it >>>>>> currently >>>>>> > does and fire the default button, if one is specified. In short, >>>>>> default >>>>>> > buttons will still be rendered blue to hint to the user that they >>>>>> are the >>>>>> > default button, but they will be less prevalently fired by Enter key >>>>>> > presses - only when they also have focus. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The two questions that I have are: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 1) Will this confuse users when there is a behavior change (and >>>>>> > presumably, this change will be made in JDK 9 and not backported to >>>>>> JDK 8). >>>>>> > If it will confuse users, is it still the right thing to do? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2) Do we want to have different behaviors for OS X and non-OS X? >>>>>> I'm a >>>>>> > newly inducted member into the cult of Mac, and I don't yet have >>>>>> all my >>>>>> > bearings sorted out, so I don't have a strong opinion here. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Your thoughts, as always, are appreciated. >>>>>> > -- Jonathan >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >>>>> Virus-free. >>>>> www.avast.com >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >>>>> <#m_130544982301072256_m_1455100482491084454_m_-8105136466737180413_m_1700382838741580870_m_-3404683945119215455_DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Michael >>> >> >> > > > -- > Thanks, > > Michael >
