Hi, I see the value of Github Discussions, but I also see the value of the mailinglists we are currently using. We have to realise though that this particular list is about the *development* of OpenJFX, not about *using* OpenJFX. Therefore, I believe it is ok to be more formal here, and a number of things that make Github discussions more light-weight might imho decrease productivity.
But on the other hand, I also agree that the entry level is very high for new developers. Years ago, I advocated for a separate "openjfx-discuss" mailinglist where we would have more informal discussions and brainstorms. We have that list but it's not frequently used. I was probably wrong in suggesting this, as the style and formalism of the mailinglists does not match with discussions amongst developers. The idea of what I had for an "openjfx-discuss" mailinglist might work better on Github Discussions. It would be a low-level entry point where new ideas can be tossed. Personally, I don't see what's wrong with the subscribe page (I love it when technology from the eighties is still working :) ) but realistically, yes, it might turn away developers who might have great ideas and time. In short: I'm +1 on keeping openjfx-dev to the current mailinglist, but I think it could be good if we move openjfx-discuss to a github discussion. - Johan On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:29 AM Sebastian Stenzel < sebastian.sten...@gmail.com> wrote: > I am among the younger people here on the mailing lists (at least I think > so) and I can very much relate to what Michael suggests. So here is my > personal answer to the _why_ question: > > Mailing lists create an enormous barrier to external devs like myself who > are willing to contribute: > * Signing up to a means of the 80s feels just strange > * Signing up to _any_ additional tool is deterring (same holds true for > JBS), especially when you're used to low-threshold contributions to other > projects can be > * Therefore, signing up feels like a liability that you may not want to > commit to, if you merely want to express your support for a single comment > * It can be hard to find the correct mailing list for the topic you want > to discuss > * You'll > * either receive digests and miss a topic you're interested in > * or dozens of additional mails each day, alienating people who just > want to follow specific discussions > * No proper formatting > * No proper linking to code, issues, PRs, ... > * Hard to track diverging discussions > * Very hard to search - I basically need to use Google and restrict the > search to some mail archive > * Linking to different topics means you need to either quote the whole > thing or link to an archive > > On the other hand I see one important argument against GitHub Discussions: > We have no control over how Discussions will change in the future. Even if > they seem suitable today, we can't tell if it may be necessary to switch to > yet another tool in 5 years. Each time you switch, you strip connections to > discussions that took place on the previous platform. Switching tools > always comes with a commitment to it and bears this risk. > > That said, I agree that this may not be something for OpenJFX to decide > for its own. Maybe this discussion belongs on the skara mailing list (did I > mention that it's hard to find the right mailing list, a topic belongs to?) > Furthermore, changing a process is never easy and will scare people used to > the status quo, especially when they've grown familiar with the old process > over decades. I've seen this in companies many times. If there is no > pressure to change, better tooling is not a strong enough argument to > change processes. > > > > On 20. Aug 2021, at 03:39, openjfx-dev-requ...@openjdk.java.net wrote: > > > > From: Philip Race <philip.r...@oracle.com <mailto:philip.r...@oracle.com > >> > > Subject: Re: Moving discussions to GitHub? > > Date: 20. August 2021 at 03:39:04 CEST > > To: Michael Strauß <michaelstr...@gmail.com <mailto: > michaelstr...@gmail.com>>, "openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net <mailto: > openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net> List" <openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net <mailto: > openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net>> > > > > > > I am not sure that openjfx as an openjdk sponsored project can > unilaterally decide this. > > Nor sure that it makes sense either to be different. > > And I've not felt the same disconnection you cite or have any idea why > > this would be better or even match how we work. > > > > > > -phil. > > > > On 8/19/21 5:50 PM, Michael Strauß wrote: > >> With the GitHub Discussions feature now out of beta*, I'd like to > >> start a conversation on whether it could be a good idea for the > >> OpenJFX project to embrace it as the primary place to discuss and > >> interact with the broader community. > >> > >> While I understand that mailing lists have a long tradition with > >> OpenJDK projects, I feel that they are not a great tool for building > >> and maintaining a community. It's pretty hard to search archived mails > >> and find relevant information or past discussions. Sure, you can do > >> it, but it's not very inviting and accessible. > >> > >> It also seems to me that the mailing list is very disconnected from > >> the people actually using OpenJFX. Since most people already are on > >> GitHub, and most people interested in OpenJFX will find its GitHub > >> repository, it would also seem to be the most logical place to invite > >> people into the community and join our discussions. > >> > >> After all, growing and maintaining a community is fundamental for > >> every open-source project to remain relevant. > >> > >> * https://github.blog/2021-08-17-github-discussions-out-of-beta < > https://github.blog/2021-08-17-github-discussions-out-of-beta> >
