Right, but I don't think this needs to be done as part of the openjdk organization -- especially not given the informal character I suggest for this list. There are a fair number of options where/how the discussion can be hosted. Ironically, this is something that we might rather have to discuss on the openjfx-discuss list.
- Johan On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 4:55 PM Kevin Rushforth <kevin.rushfo...@oracle.com> wrote: > Interesting idea about moving just the openjfx-discuss list to GitHub > discussions, although even that will run into some resistance. Enabling > any GitHub feature as part of the openjdk organization needs buy-in from > the the larger openjdk community, and probably from the OpenJDK Project > Lead. > > -- Kevin > > > On 8/20/2021 7:30 AM, Johan Vos wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I see the value of Github Discussions, but I also see the value of the > > mailinglists we are currently using. We have to realise though that this > > particular list is about the *development* of OpenJFX, not about *using* > > OpenJFX. Therefore, I believe it is ok to be more formal here, and a > number > > of things that make Github discussions more light-weight might imho > > decrease productivity. > > > > But on the other hand, I also agree that the entry level is very high for > > new developers. Years ago, I advocated for a separate "openjfx-discuss" > > mailinglist where we would have more informal discussions and > brainstorms. > > We have that list but it's not frequently used. I was probably wrong in > > suggesting this, as the style and formalism of the mailinglists does not > > match with discussions amongst developers. > > The idea of what I had for an "openjfx-discuss" mailinglist might work > > better on Github Discussions. It would be a low-level entry point where > new > > ideas can be tossed. Personally, I don't see what's wrong with the > > subscribe page (I love it when technology from the eighties is still > > working :) ) but realistically, yes, it might turn away developers who > > might have great ideas and time. > > > > In short: I'm +1 on keeping openjfx-dev to the current mailinglist, but I > > think it could be good if we move openjfx-discuss to a github discussion. > > > > - Johan > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:29 AM Sebastian Stenzel < > > sebastian.sten...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> I am among the younger people here on the mailing lists (at least I > think > >> so) and I can very much relate to what Michael suggests. So here is my > >> personal answer to the _why_ question: > >> > >> Mailing lists create an enormous barrier to external devs like myself > who > >> are willing to contribute: > >> * Signing up to a means of the 80s feels just strange > >> * Signing up to _any_ additional tool is deterring (same holds true for > >> JBS), especially when you're used to low-threshold contributions to > other > >> projects can be > >> * Therefore, signing up feels like a liability that you may not want to > >> commit to, if you merely want to express your support for a single > comment > >> * It can be hard to find the correct mailing list for the topic you want > >> to discuss > >> * You'll > >> * either receive digests and miss a topic you're interested in > >> * or dozens of additional mails each day, alienating people who just > >> want to follow specific discussions > >> * No proper formatting > >> * No proper linking to code, issues, PRs, ... > >> * Hard to track diverging discussions > >> * Very hard to search - I basically need to use Google and restrict the > >> search to some mail archive > >> * Linking to different topics means you need to either quote the whole > >> thing or link to an archive > >> > >> On the other hand I see one important argument against GitHub > Discussions: > >> We have no control over how Discussions will change in the future. Even > if > >> they seem suitable today, we can't tell if it may be necessary to > switch to > >> yet another tool in 5 years. Each time you switch, you strip > connections to > >> discussions that took place on the previous platform. Switching tools > >> always comes with a commitment to it and bears this risk. > >> > >> That said, I agree that this may not be something for OpenJFX to decide > >> for its own. Maybe this discussion belongs on the skara mailing list > (did I > >> mention that it's hard to find the right mailing list, a topic belongs > to?) > >> Furthermore, changing a process is never easy and will scare people > used to > >> the status quo, especially when they've grown familiar with the old > process > >> over decades. I've seen this in companies many times. If there is no > >> pressure to change, better tooling is not a strong enough argument to > >> change processes. > >> > >> > >>> On 20. Aug 2021, at 03:39, openjfx-dev-requ...@openjdk.java.net wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Philip Race <philip.r...@oracle.com <mailto: > philip.r...@oracle.com > >>> Subject: Re: Moving discussions to GitHub? > >>> Date: 20. August 2021 at 03:39:04 CEST > >>> To: Michael Strauß <michaelstr...@gmail.com <mailto: > >> michaelstr...@gmail.com>>, "openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net <mailto: > >> openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net> List" <openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net > <mailto: > >> openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net>> > >>> > >>> I am not sure that openjfx as an openjdk sponsored project can > >> unilaterally decide this. > >>> Nor sure that it makes sense either to be different. > >>> And I've not felt the same disconnection you cite or have any idea why > >>> this would be better or even match how we work. > >>> > >>> > >>> -phil. > >>> > >>> On 8/19/21 5:50 PM, Michael Strauß wrote: > >>>> With the GitHub Discussions feature now out of beta*, I'd like to > >>>> start a conversation on whether it could be a good idea for the > >>>> OpenJFX project to embrace it as the primary place to discuss and > >>>> interact with the broader community. > >>>> > >>>> While I understand that mailing lists have a long tradition with > >>>> OpenJDK projects, I feel that they are not a great tool for building > >>>> and maintaining a community. It's pretty hard to search archived mails > >>>> and find relevant information or past discussions. Sure, you can do > >>>> it, but it's not very inviting and accessible. > >>>> > >>>> It also seems to me that the mailing list is very disconnected from > >>>> the people actually using OpenJFX. Since most people already are on > >>>> GitHub, and most people interested in OpenJFX will find its GitHub > >>>> repository, it would also seem to be the most logical place to invite > >>>> people into the community and join our discussions. > >>>> > >>>> After all, growing and maintaining a community is fundamental for > >>>> every open-source project to remain relevant. > >>>> > >>>> * https://github.blog/2021-08-17-github-discussions-out-of-beta < > >> https://github.blog/2021-08-17-github-discussions-out-of-beta> > >> > >
