Single page application will be really to maintain.
Single page application will be really hard to maintain.

sorry

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>wrote:

> I'll read about real time communication (have no experience with it)
> Single page application will be really to maintain.
> I'll try to create simple chat example to test how does it fit into
> multipage (most probably in the beginning of the next week)
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM, [email protected] <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I agree that there might be exceptions:
>> For example the SignIn.html could stay an extra page. No need to bother
>> the
>> application with authentication stuff for now.
>> Also as in the SignIn process there is no need for RealTime-Communication.
>> But for the rest, I don't see another way, then doing it with a
>> Single-Page
>> Design.
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
>> 2012/9/1 [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>
>> > If you have multiple pages the chat will refresh everytime you change
>> the
>> > menu entry. It is also just an example, we could also have other
>> real-time
>> > updated components that should stay throughout the whole session. You
>> can
>> > hardly push messages to a websites if the user constantly could
>> > refresh/re-enter the website.
>> > I guess WebSockets also require you to stay on the same website all the
>> > time, and not switch permanently from one page to another. Otherwise you
>> > would constantly re-open the socket and close it xxx times when the user
>> > browse's the website.
>> > Page Refresh + WebSockets/Real time communication just does not fit
>> > together from my point of view.
>> >
>> > I think you can also access the browser's URL by using JavaScript. For
>> > example you could read also the GET parameters of the URL and based on
>> that
>> > send the user to the "bookmarked" area.
>> > Anyhow, bookmarking subpages should be not the reason why we stick to
>> > multi-page design.
>> >
>> > Sebastian
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/9/1 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
>> >
>> >> Hello Sebastian,
>> >>
>> >> I agree we need to use Ajax to make pages smooth.
>> >> But I thought about multiple pages to make page bookmarking available.
>> >> The main page of wicket application is currently mapped to:
>> >> http://localhost:5080/openmeetings/html
>> >> For example I would like to make following pages:
>> >> html -- dashboard
>> >> html/signin
>> >> html/logout
>> >> html/calendar
>> >> html/admin/users
>> >> etc ...
>> >>
>> >> all navigations/loadings will be via Ajax inside the pages above.
>> >> Chat will be present as component added to the footer of the main page.
>> >> (all other pages will derive from it)
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 2:50 PM, [email protected] <
>> >> [email protected]
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi Maxim,
>> >> >
>> >> > thanks for adding the Wicket components!
>> >> >
>> >> > I would like to discuss some basic architectural questions of the
>> >> > website before we are going to implement the modules in detail.
>> >> > What is important to me it that we build a Single Page Application
>> >> > (SPA). That means instead of generating links to subpages that
>> >> > completely re-render the whole page we replace components/fragements
>> >> > of the website at runtime.
>> >> > From my point of view that is very important as we have a number of
>> >> > components that should stay the same or initialized at runtime.
>> >> > For example the Chat window should stay open no matter where you
>> >> > navigate to. Or for example in the conference room you can create new
>> >> > instance of the whiteboard. There is no chance to reload everything
>> >> > just to add or remove a component.
>> >> >
>> >> > So I would like to create/find consens about a basic mechanism of how
>> >> > to load and create fragements of the website at runtime in Apache
>> >> > Wicket.
>> >> > One solution is to load all components and only make the visible when
>> >> > you need them. I don't think that this is a solution for us as we
>> just
>> >> > have too many components. Also I think it would be better to load at
>> >> > runtime so that it is possible to create some kind of plugin loader
>> >> > mechanism later.
>> >> > So now comes the issue: How to realize a dynamic component loader in
>> >> > Wicket? How to integrate that into our layout?
>> >> >
>> >> > Practically it would mean we have a single "Main.html" and
>> "Main.java"
>> >> > and from that one it links / dynamically loads the sub components via
>> >> > Ajax.
>> >> > That means that we internally of course have sub-pages, however they
>> >> > are loaded via Ajax.
>> >> > There is an example with Modal Dialogue's in Wickets Ajax library:
>> >> > http://www.wicket-library.com/wicket-examples/ajax/modal-window?9
>> >> > A similar mechanism should be realized when you click on our main
>> menu
>> >> > and load the content for each sub-section (like user-administration,
>> >> > dashboard, room-list, et cetera).
>> >> >
>> >> > What do you think, did you run into a similar problem yet?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks!
>> >> > Sebastian
>> >> >
>> >> > 2012/8/30 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>:
>> >> > > I did create my own SignIn page ant set it in Application derived
>> from
>> >> > > AuthenticatedWebApplication and perform login based on the
>> credentials
>> >> > > entered.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Oliver becherer
>> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> kay, i see...
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> are you using IAuthorizationStrategy Interface? i found that very
>> >> handy
>> >> > in setting up wicket apps, since it's easy to extend, when starting
>> >> > >> with page based navigation rules and later on expanding to
>> component
>> >> > based/ action based authentication/navigation rules...
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> it's also quite good when its planned to provide deep links into
>> the
>> >> > application, throwing user back to login page with
>> >> > RestartResponseAtInterceptPageException in case he's not
>> authenticated
>> >> and
>> >> > redirecting him to deep link page after login...
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> thanks for the update!
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> O
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Am 30.08.2012 um 11:18 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>>> for a better understanding : why is the login performed with
>> jQuery
>> >> > instead of the default Authentication mechanisms provided by wicket?
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> Standard Wicket login page was replaced with custom form so login
>> >> via
>> >> > >>> LDAP can be implemented.
>> >> > >>> Login is not performed using jQuery, login form is just wrapped
>> with
>> >> > >>> jQuery dialog to look similar to current Om login dialog.
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Oliver becherer
>> >> > >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> hi,
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> this is great news for me - unfortunately, i've been inactive
>> for a
>> >> > long time in OM now, but will try to catch up with you guys.
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> -> Implementing Wicket as UI technology is perfect way to go,
>> in my
>> >> > opinion, since we can reduce the technology stack for developing OM
>> on
>> >> the
>> >> > long run (as soon as openLaszlo is no longer required in future times
>> >> ^^).
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> Chapeau! from my side...
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> for a better understanding : why is the login performed with
>> jQuery
>> >> > instead of the default Authentication mechanisms provided by wicket?
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> thanks!
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> O
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> Am 30.08.2012 um 09:53 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik:
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>> I have no public server to run this.
>> >> > >>>>> You can run it locally:
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> 1) svn up
>> >> > >>>>> 2) edit web.xml (uncomment Wicket Filter)
>> >> > >>>>> 3) ant -Ddb=mysql
>> >> > >>>>> 4) http://localhost:5080/openmeetings
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Alexei Fedotov
>> >> > >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>> Maxim, that's great!
>> >> > >>>>>> Can I check a demo somewhere?
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>> >> > >>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>> >> > >>>>>> http://dataved.ru/
>> >> > >>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Maxim Solodovnik <
>> >> > [email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>> Just have commited Initial "HelloWorld" OM Wicket application
>> >> (to
>> >> > use
>> >> > >>>>>>> need to uncomment wicket filter in web.xml)
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> What was done:
>> >> > >>>>>>> 1) Wicket is starts and handle pages
>> >> > >>>>>>> 2) All OM labels are displayed from DB
>> >> > >>>>>>> 3) You can login using your OM username/pass (login dialog
>> uses
>> >> > jQuery
>> >> > >>>>>>> UI dialog)
>> >> > >>>>>>> 4) OM user levels are in effect (user or admin)
>> >> > >>>>>>> 5) OM Navi menu is displayed from the DB
>> >> > >>>>>>> 6) Navi link to Admin users page displays stub for admin
>> users
>> >> page
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> What was not done:
>> >> > >>>>>>> 1) wicket currently handles all URLs (this is why it is
>> >> currently
>> >> > commented)
>> >> > >>>>>>> 2) Entity list is not displayed from the DB as paged table
>> >> (going
>> >> > to
>> >> > >>>>>>> do as next task)
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> Please take a look and tell me what do you think?
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:08 PM, [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>> There have been no votes against using OpenLaszlo and
>> compile
>> >> to
>> >> > >>>>>>>> DHTML. However the OpenLaszlo project seems currently no
>> more
>> >> > >>>>>>>> maintained. There has been no release since 2010 of the
>> >> project.
>> >> > The
>> >> > >>>>>>>> comunity has downsized by factor of 10.
>> >> > >>>>>>>> This is the community activity in the last years:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > http://www.openlaszlo.org/pipermail/laszlo-dev/2012-June/024912.html
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> It is likely that if we are switching to DHTML that we will
>> run
>> >> > into
>> >> > >>>>>>>> issues as soon as new browser features of HTML5 will come
>> up as
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>>>> Openlaszlo platform does not implement them. It would be
>> >> actually
>> >> > our
>> >> > >>>>>>>> task not only to develop OpenMeetings but also OpenLaszlo.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> As DHTML compilation is a quite future orientated task I
>> think
>> >> we
>> >> > >>>>>>>> should choose technology that support mobile devices and
>> >> > constantly
>> >> > >>>>>>>> improves its cross-browser capibilities.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> And last but not least the question is of course: How can we
>> >> > attract
>> >> > >>>>>>>> new users? Chossing OpenLaszlo does actively look-out
>> people as
>> >> > they
>> >> > >>>>>>>> are not willing to learn it. We will have much better
>> chances
>> >> to
>> >> > find
>> >> > >>>>>>>> new contributors if we choose a technology people are
>> familiar
>> >> > with.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> jQuery and Wicket do not bundle out of the box, simply
>> because
>> >> > jQuery
>> >> > >>>>>>>> is an UI framework and Wicket is a server side framework.
>> There
>> >> > are
>> >> > >>>>>>>> projects and components that combine jQuery and Wicket
>> >> > >>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wiquery/
>> >> > >>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/jqwicket/
>> >> > >>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wickext/
>> >> > >>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wicket-jquery-ui/
>> >> > >>>>>>>> www.7thweb.net/jquery-ui-samples/
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> And those are only the "projects" actually combining those
>> >> > >>>>>>>> technologies needs nothing more then an import statement of
>> the
>> >> > jQuery
>> >> > >>>>>>>> library in the page header.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> *It make little sense copying existing workflow. It adds
>> value
>> >> to
>> >> > >>>>>>>> improve the workflow.*
>> >> > >>>>>>>> => I agree on that, however Flash is dead. We have to
>> provide a
>> >> > DHTML
>> >> > >>>>>>>> alternative. We will not replace our server side workflow.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> *We need to add value to the product on any step. That
>> makes us
>> >> > >>>>>>>> user-oriented, not technology oriented.*
>> >> > >>>>>>>> => We will keep existing Flash frontend as long as its
>> needed.
>> >> It
>> >> > is
>> >> > >>>>>>>> my intention to have a running OpenMeetings package all the
>> >> time.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> *Maybe we should use java management API and embed the
>> existing
>> >> > >>>>>>>> management console?
>> >> > >>>>>>>> Maybe we should ship admin as a separate release bundle?
>> >> Splitting
>> >> > >>>>>>>> will help re-using other technologies.
>> >> > >>>>>>>> Maybe we should ask designer guys on look & feel concept,
>> and
>> >> > apply it
>> >> > >>>>>>>> to our product?*
>> >> > >>>>>>>> => Sorry but now you are actually the one the broadens the
>> >> whole
>> >> > >>>>>>>> discussion to a much larger scale.
>> >> > >>>>>>>> I agree with you that we need to define small steps to
>> improve
>> >> > our project.
>> >> > >>>>>>>> But having more modularization like "separate release
>> bundle"
>> >> has
>> >> > >>>>>>>> actually nothing to do with DHTML compilation. It is just
>> >> another
>> >> > >>>>>>>> topic. Same as "ask designer guys on look & feel concept".
>> >> > >>>>>>>> This is just not the topic of DHTML or not. You can do it
>> >> > regardless
>> >> > >>>>>>>> if you compile DHTML or Flash.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> 2012/8/28 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> I do not stop people from volunteering. My thanks to Maxim
>> >> for 1)
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> proactivity; 2) good technology choice.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> I missed few items, Maxim told the first one is somewhere
>> in
>> >> the
>> >> > thread.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> 1. Why not to recompile OpenLaszlo to DHTML?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> 2. What is the plan and is it actually doable? What is time
>> >> > estimate?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> My friend who worked for our competior told me that they
>> have
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-written design four times during the last for years. We
>> >> don't
>> >> > have
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> resources for this. So my suggestion would be the
>> following:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> 1. Find Openmeetings usability problems or most wanted
>> >> features.
>> >> > Maybe
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> Marco can help.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> 2. Develop that using new technology, making minor
>> >> adjustments to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> already working things.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> So main concerns
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> 1. It make little sense copying existing workflow. It adds
>> >> value
>> >> > to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> improve the workflow.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> 2. We need to add value to the product on any step. That
>> >> makes us
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> user-oriented, not technology oriented.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> How good wicket is with jquery? It does not seem to work
>> with
>> >> > jquery
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> out of the box.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:51 AM, [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> What are your alternatives?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> There are already people volunteering to start
>> contributing
>> >> to
>> >> > it.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> It can be realized without breaking functionality, we
>> still
>> >> > have the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Flash interface available while we build DHTML.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/28 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Guys, please do not rush, let me think a bit.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM, [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer develop in trunk. I would vote for this
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2012 3:49 PM, "[email protected]" <
>> >> > [email protected]>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds good.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you want to create a new branch for the DHTML tree
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or will trunk become the DHTML tree and we create a
>> 2.1
>> >> > branch ?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need to add following lines to our ivy.xml:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               <dependency org="org.apache.wicket"
>> >> > name="wicket-core"
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rev="6.0.0-beta3" conf="openmeetings->*"/>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and that is all
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can create "sample Om main page" and them both of
>> as
>> >> can
>> >> > add
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> components to it.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM,
>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wickets standard project setup require Maven. What
>> is
>> >> > your proposal to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrate Wicket into the current stack?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't really understand why do we need maven?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why ant+ivy is not enough?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always thought it is similar tools.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could you please explain it?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:10 PM,
>> >> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well lets give it a try with Wicket.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However when it comes to the real collaboration
>> and
>> >> UI
>> >> > effects I think
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we will heavily use jQuery.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will first have to integrate our application
>> in a
>> >> > Maven styled
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> project.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess we can still use ANT to compile certain
>> >> aspect
>> >> > of our
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application, Maven can trigger ANT build scripts.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be a perfect tool for us.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However some of the Ivy dependency management
>> might
>> >> be
>> >> > difficult to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up. Lets try that out.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]
>> >:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Sebastian,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sorry for the late reply (was out of city with no
>> >> > internet access)
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While proposing using Apache Wicket I thought of
>> >> > following:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Displaying of lists: configuration, language
>> >> > labels, rooms etc.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Use of Ajax to refresh only parts of page
>> >> displayed.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We definitely can use JS libraries (like jQuery
>> UI)
>> >> > only but this
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make code less readable. I believe Apache Wicket
>> >> will
>> >> > be good for
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admin menu etc. And we can easily add jQuery UI
>> to
>> >> it.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of Wicket we can use Spring MVC and
>> >> Velocity.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have proposed Wicket only because I have more
>> >> > experience with it
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from my point of view it is easy to maintain.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:23 AM,
>> >> > [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After some discussion I would like to propose to
>> >> > integrate Apache
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wicket and try it out.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have update the document:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please add your notes.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
>> >> > [email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This would be my proposal:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
>> >> > [email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What if we instead of Apache Wicket use Apache
>> >> > Velocity to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basic structure of the HTML websites?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All dynamically loaded data, rendering of
>> items
>> >> > could be then
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> done by jQuery.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That way we will have a set of html templates
>> to
>> >> > work on and a UI
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> framework to manipulate it.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
>> >> > [email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to share this use-case
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the next iteration I would like to put the
>> >> Chat
>> >> > box as a
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> permanent
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> box similar to what is in Google+ and
>> Facebook
>> >> on
>> >> > the bottom.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That mean no matter where you go, admin
>> section,
>> >> > room list,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dashboard
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> => the chat always stays the same, so a
>> complete
>> >> > page refresh is
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not possible.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would simply replace the DIV that contains
>> the
>> >> > main content
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with new
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one when switching between main menu entries.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about that?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would that affect the framework
>> discussion?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
>> >> > [email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to rendering and UI component
>> >> > frameworks you come
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects like:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wiquery
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.7thweb.net/jquery-ui-samples/
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simple search for "Apache Wicket UI samples"
>> >> and
>> >> > you find tons
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jQuery examples that are used in Apache
>> Wicket.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So from my point of view Apache Wicket is
>> >> simply
>> >> > no UI
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> framework. It
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a web-framework. How things render is not
>> >> part
>> >> > of it.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Practically
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it might mean that we could combine Apache
>> >> Wicket
>> >> > with jQuery
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> too. But
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why use Apache Wicket then at all? We have
>> >> > already a backend
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Rest
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services and everything. Wicket would
>> duplicate
>> >> > that. What
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts of
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wicket would we really use?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
>> >> > [email protected]>:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you show examples of Apache Wicket UI
>> >> > widgets and
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> animation?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 Maxim Solodovnik <
>> >> [email protected]
>> >> > >:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend to review Apache Wicket.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is MVC it has lots of UI components
>> like
>> >> > paged lists table
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> views etc.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It had built-in AJAX support.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In general I'll vote for moving to DHTML
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2012 3:57 PM, "
>> >> [email protected]"
>> >> > <
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start a discussion about
>> >> > options to migrate
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roadmap for the upcomfing versions.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is our current situation:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have two client side
>> >> application
>> >> > a) + b)
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) Audio/Video related stuff is all the
>> >> SWF10
>> >> > app
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) whiteboard, administration + all the
>> rest
>> >> > in the SWF8 app.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two SWFs communicate via
>> LocalConnection
>> >> > with each other.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three options from my point of
>> >> view:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) refactor the SWF8 app to SWF11 and
>> keep
>> >> the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LocalConnection
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) refactor the SWF8 and merge SWF8 with
>> >> SWF10
>> >> > app to a
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> single SWF11
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> app and get rid of the LocalConnection
>> >> > workaround
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) refactor the SWF8 app to HTML5 and
>> only
>> >> use
>> >> > SWF for the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio/video
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 1 is the easiest thing to do
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 2 is the best from architecture
>> point
>> >> > of view
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 3 is the best for moving to HTML5
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my point of view it would be the
>> best
>> >> > option to start
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DHTML
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> refactoring now (in a version 3.0 branch)
>> >> and
>> >> > release the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trunk tree (as version 2.1).
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the transition to DHTML we have
>> several
>> >> > options:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I) Refactor to DHTML using OpenLaszlo
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> II) Refactor to DHTML using a JavaScript
>> >> > framework (jQuery,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dojo,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Wicket, Spring+MVC)
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My personal preference is using jQuery.
>> It
>> >> > provides
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> components for UI
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and animation and is the most widespread.
>> >> From
>> >> > a project
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> point of view
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it will be more easy to attract new
>> >> developers
>> >> > if they can
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use tools
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they are comfortable in. And I
>> really
>> >> > don't want to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> code a client
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side application that requires heavy
>> usage
>> >> of
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> page-refresh. That
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be like moving back in time.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some architectural questions
>> that
>> >> we
>> >> > should
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss for the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JavaScript refactoring.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However there should be some kind of
>> consens
>> >> > on the overall
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RoadMap first.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what do you think?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > >>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > >>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > >>>>>>>> [email protected]
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>> WBR
>> >> > >>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>> WBR
>> >> > >>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> --
>> >> > >>> WBR
>> >> > >>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > > WBR
>> >> > > Maxim aka solomax
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Sebastian Wagner
>> >> > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >> > http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >> > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >> > [email protected]
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> WBR
>> >> Maxim aka solomax
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sebastian Wagner
>> > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> > http://www.webbase-design.de
>> > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> > [email protected]
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sebastian Wagner
>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> [email protected]
>>
>
>
>
> --
> WBR
> Maxim aka solomax
>



-- 
WBR
Maxim aka solomax

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