What should be harder to maintain in a single page design?

Have a look at the AjaxTabbedPanel in Wicket and this example:
http://javathoughts.capesugarbird.com/2007/11/ajax-tabbed-panel-with-lazy-loading.html

It actually will create regular sub-pages (TabOne/TabTwo). So having a
Single Page Design in the client has nothing todo with how many pages you
have on Wicket server side to maintain.
So you still have 3 HTML websites that you can style, maintain and code
separated.
So from mudularization and maintenance I see no difference.

The same can be done with what we have now, we only need to have a Menu
instead of a Tabbar and use that to load the components.

Sebastian

2012/9/1 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>

> Single page application will be really to maintain.
> Single page application will be really hard to maintain.
>
> sorry
>
> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]
> >wrote:
>
> > I'll read about real time communication (have no experience with it)
> > Single page application will be really to maintain.
> > I'll try to create simple chat example to test how does it fit into
> > multipage (most probably in the beginning of the next week)
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM, [email protected] <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I agree that there might be exceptions:
> >> For example the SignIn.html could stay an extra page. No need to bother
> >> the
> >> application with authentication stuff for now.
> >> Also as in the SignIn process there is no need for
> RealTime-Communication.
> >> But for the rest, I don't see another way, then doing it with a
> >> Single-Page
> >> Design.
> >>
> >> Sebastian
> >>
> >> 2012/9/1 [email protected] <[email protected]>
> >>
> >> > If you have multiple pages the chat will refresh everytime you change
> >> the
> >> > menu entry. It is also just an example, we could also have other
> >> real-time
> >> > updated components that should stay throughout the whole session. You
> >> can
> >> > hardly push messages to a websites if the user constantly could
> >> > refresh/re-enter the website.
> >> > I guess WebSockets also require you to stay on the same website all
> the
> >> > time, and not switch permanently from one page to another. Otherwise
> you
> >> > would constantly re-open the socket and close it xxx times when the
> user
> >> > browse's the website.
> >> > Page Refresh + WebSockets/Real time communication just does not fit
> >> > together from my point of view.
> >> >
> >> > I think you can also access the browser's URL by using JavaScript. For
> >> > example you could read also the GET parameters of the URL and based on
> >> that
> >> > send the user to the "bookmarked" area.
> >> > Anyhow, bookmarking subpages should be not the reason why we stick to
> >> > multi-page design.
> >> >
> >> > Sebastian
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2012/9/1 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
> >> >
> >> >> Hello Sebastian,
> >> >>
> >> >> I agree we need to use Ajax to make pages smooth.
> >> >> But I thought about multiple pages to make page bookmarking
> available.
> >> >> The main page of wicket application is currently mapped to:
> >> >> http://localhost:5080/openmeetings/html
> >> >> For example I would like to make following pages:
> >> >> html -- dashboard
> >> >> html/signin
> >> >> html/logout
> >> >> html/calendar
> >> >> html/admin/users
> >> >> etc ...
> >> >>
> >> >> all navigations/loadings will be via Ajax inside the pages above.
> >> >> Chat will be present as component added to the footer of the main
> page.
> >> >> (all other pages will derive from it)
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 2:50 PM, [email protected] <
> >> >> [email protected]
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi Maxim,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > thanks for adding the Wicket components!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I would like to discuss some basic architectural questions of the
> >> >> > website before we are going to implement the modules in detail.
> >> >> > What is important to me it that we build a Single Page Application
> >> >> > (SPA). That means instead of generating links to subpages that
> >> >> > completely re-render the whole page we replace
> components/fragements
> >> >> > of the website at runtime.
> >> >> > From my point of view that is very important as we have a number of
> >> >> > components that should stay the same or initialized at runtime.
> >> >> > For example the Chat window should stay open no matter where you
> >> >> > navigate to. Or for example in the conference room you can create
> new
> >> >> > instance of the whiteboard. There is no chance to reload everything
> >> >> > just to add or remove a component.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So I would like to create/find consens about a basic mechanism of
> how
> >> >> > to load and create fragements of the website at runtime in Apache
> >> >> > Wicket.
> >> >> > One solution is to load all components and only make the visible
> when
> >> >> > you need them. I don't think that this is a solution for us as we
> >> just
> >> >> > have too many components. Also I think it would be better to load
> at
> >> >> > runtime so that it is possible to create some kind of plugin loader
> >> >> > mechanism later.
> >> >> > So now comes the issue: How to realize a dynamic component loader
> in
> >> >> > Wicket? How to integrate that into our layout?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Practically it would mean we have a single "Main.html" and
> >> "Main.java"
> >> >> > and from that one it links / dynamically loads the sub components
> via
> >> >> > Ajax.
> >> >> > That means that we internally of course have sub-pages, however
> they
> >> >> > are loaded via Ajax.
> >> >> > There is an example with Modal Dialogue's in Wickets Ajax library:
> >> >> > http://www.wicket-library.com/wicket-examples/ajax/modal-window?9
> >> >> > A similar mechanism should be realized when you click on our main
> >> menu
> >> >> > and load the content for each sub-section (like
> user-administration,
> >> >> > dashboard, room-list, et cetera).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > What do you think, did you run into a similar problem yet?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks!
> >> >> > Sebastian
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2012/8/30 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>:
> >> >> > > I did create my own SignIn page ant set it in Application derived
> >> from
> >> >> > > AuthenticatedWebApplication and perform login based on the
> >> credentials
> >> >> > > entered.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Oliver becherer
> >> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> kay, i see...
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> are you using IAuthorizationStrategy Interface? i found that
> very
> >> >> handy
> >> >> > in setting up wicket apps, since it's easy to extend, when starting
> >> >> > >> with page based navigation rules and later on expanding to
> >> component
> >> >> > based/ action based authentication/navigation rules...
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> it's also quite good when its planned to provide deep links into
> >> the
> >> >> > application, throwing user back to login page with
> >> >> > RestartResponseAtInterceptPageException in case he's not
> >> authenticated
> >> >> and
> >> >> > redirecting him to deep link page after login...
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> thanks for the update!
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> O
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Am 30.08.2012 um 11:18 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik:
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>>> for a better understanding : why is the login performed with
> >> jQuery
> >> >> > instead of the default Authentication mechanisms provided by
> wicket?
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> Standard Wicket login page was replaced with custom form so
> login
> >> >> via
> >> >> > >>> LDAP can be implemented.
> >> >> > >>> Login is not performed using jQuery, login form is just wrapped
> >> with
> >> >> > >>> jQuery dialog to look similar to current Om login dialog.
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Oliver becherer
> >> >> > >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> hi,
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> this is great news for me - unfortunately, i've been inactive
> >> for a
> >> >> > long time in OM now, but will try to catch up with you guys.
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> -> Implementing Wicket as UI technology is perfect way to go,
> >> in my
> >> >> > opinion, since we can reduce the technology stack for developing OM
> >> on
> >> >> the
> >> >> > long run (as soon as openLaszlo is no longer required in future
> times
> >> >> ^^).
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> Chapeau! from my side...
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> for a better understanding : why is the login performed with
> >> jQuery
> >> >> > instead of the default Authentication mechanisms provided by
> wicket?
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> thanks!
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> O
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> Am 30.08.2012 um 09:53 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik:
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> I have no public server to run this.
> >> >> > >>>>> You can run it locally:
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> 1) svn up
> >> >> > >>>>> 2) edit web.xml (uncomment Wicket Filter)
> >> >> > >>>>> 3) ant -Ddb=mysql
> >> >> > >>>>> 4) http://localhost:5080/openmeetings
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Alexei Fedotov
> >> >> > >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>> Maxim, that's great!
> >> >> > >>>>>> Can I check a demo somewhere?
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
> >> >> > >>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
> >> >> > >>>>>> http://dataved.ru/
> >> >> > >>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Maxim Solodovnik <
> >> >> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>> Just have commited Initial "HelloWorld" OM Wicket
> application
> >> >> (to
> >> >> > use
> >> >> > >>>>>>> need to uncomment wicket filter in web.xml)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> What was done:
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 1) Wicket is starts and handle pages
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 2) All OM labels are displayed from DB
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 3) You can login using your OM username/pass (login dialog
> >> uses
> >> >> > jQuery
> >> >> > >>>>>>> UI dialog)
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 4) OM user levels are in effect (user or admin)
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 5) OM Navi menu is displayed from the DB
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 6) Navi link to Admin users page displays stub for admin
> >> users
> >> >> page
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> What was not done:
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 1) wicket currently handles all URLs (this is why it is
> >> >> currently
> >> >> > commented)
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 2) Entity list is not displayed from the DB as paged table
> >> >> (going
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > >>>>>>> do as next task)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> Please take a look and tell me what do you think?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:08 PM, [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> There have been no votes against using OpenLaszlo and
> >> compile
> >> >> to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> DHTML. However the OpenLaszlo project seems currently no
> >> more
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> maintained. There has been no release since 2010 of the
> >> >> project.
> >> >> > The
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> comunity has downsized by factor of 10.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> This is the community activity in the last years:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >
> http://www.openlaszlo.org/pipermail/laszlo-dev/2012-June/024912.html
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> It is likely that if we are switching to DHTML that we
> will
> >> run
> >> >> > into
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> issues as soon as new browser features of HTML5 will come
> >> up as
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Openlaszlo platform does not implement them. It would be
> >> >> actually
> >> >> > our
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> task not only to develop OpenMeetings but also OpenLaszlo.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> As DHTML compilation is a quite future orientated task I
> >> think
> >> >> we
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> should choose technology that support mobile devices and
> >> >> > constantly
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> improves its cross-browser capibilities.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> And last but not least the question is of course: How can
> we
> >> >> > attract
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> new users? Chossing OpenLaszlo does actively look-out
> >> people as
> >> >> > they
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> are not willing to learn it. We will have much better
> >> chances
> >> >> to
> >> >> > find
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> new contributors if we choose a technology people are
> >> familiar
> >> >> > with.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> jQuery and Wicket do not bundle out of the box, simply
> >> because
> >> >> > jQuery
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> is an UI framework and Wicket is a server side framework.
> >> There
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> projects and components that combine jQuery and Wicket
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wiquery/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/jqwicket/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wickext/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wicket-jquery-ui/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> www.7thweb.net/jquery-ui-samples/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> And those are only the "projects" actually combining those
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> technologies needs nothing more then an import statement
> of
> >> the
> >> >> > jQuery
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> library in the page header.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> *It make little sense copying existing workflow. It adds
> >> value
> >> >> to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> improve the workflow.*
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> => I agree on that, however Flash is dead. We have to
> >> provide a
> >> >> > DHTML
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> alternative. We will not replace our server side workflow.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> *We need to add value to the product on any step. That
> >> makes us
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> user-oriented, not technology oriented.*
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> => We will keep existing Flash frontend as long as its
> >> needed.
> >> >> It
> >> >> > is
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> my intention to have a running OpenMeetings package all
> the
> >> >> time.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> *Maybe we should use java management API and embed the
> >> existing
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> management console?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Maybe we should ship admin as a separate release bundle?
> >> >> Splitting
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> will help re-using other technologies.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Maybe we should ask designer guys on look & feel concept,
> >> and
> >> >> > apply it
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> to our product?*
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> => Sorry but now you are actually the one the broadens the
> >> >> whole
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> discussion to a much larger scale.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> I agree with you that we need to define small steps to
> >> improve
> >> >> > our project.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> But having more modularization like "separate release
> >> bundle"
> >> >> has
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> actually nothing to do with DHTML compilation. It is just
> >> >> another
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> topic. Same as "ask designer guys on look & feel concept".
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> This is just not the topic of DHTML or not. You can do it
> >> >> > regardless
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> if you compile DHTML or Flash.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> 2012/8/28 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> I do not stop people from volunteering. My thanks to
> Maxim
> >> >> for 1)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> proactivity; 2) good technology choice.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> I missed few items, Maxim told the first one is somewhere
> >> in
> >> >> the
> >> >> > thread.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> 1. Why not to recompile OpenLaszlo to DHTML?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> 2. What is the plan and is it actually doable? What is
> time
> >> >> > estimate?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> My friend who worked for our competior told me that they
> >> have
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-written design four times during the last for years.
> We
> >> >> don't
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> resources for this. So my suggestion would be the
> >> following:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> 1. Find Openmeetings usability problems or most wanted
> >> >> features.
> >> >> > Maybe
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Marco can help.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> 2. Develop that using new technology, making minor
> >> >> adjustments to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> already working things.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> So main concerns
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> 1. It make little sense copying existing workflow. It
> adds
> >> >> value
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> improve the workflow.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> 2. We need to add value to the product on any step. That
> >> >> makes us
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> user-oriented, not technology oriented.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> How good wicket is with jquery? It does not seem to work
> >> with
> >> >> > jquery
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> out of the box.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:51 AM, [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> What are your alternatives?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> There are already people volunteering to start
> >> contributing
> >> >> to
> >> >> > it.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> It can be realized without breaking functionality, we
> >> still
> >> >> > have the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Flash interface available while we build DHTML.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/28 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Guys, please do not rush, let me think a bit.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM,
> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer develop in trunk. I would vote for this
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2012 3:49 PM, "[email protected]" <
> >> >> > [email protected]>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds good.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you want to create a new branch for the DHTML
> tree
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or will trunk become the DHTML tree and we create a
> >> 2.1
> >> >> > branch ?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need to add following lines to our ivy.xml:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               <dependency org="org.apache.wicket"
> >> >> > name="wicket-core"
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rev="6.0.0-beta3" conf="openmeetings->*"/>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and that is all
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can create "sample Om main page" and them both of
> >> as
> >> >> can
> >> >> > add
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> components to it.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM,
> >> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wickets standard project setup require Maven. What
> >> is
> >> >> > your proposal to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrate Wicket into the current stack?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]
> >:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't really understand why do we need maven?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why ant+ivy is not enough?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always thought it is similar tools.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could you please explain it?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:10 PM,
> >> >> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well lets give it a try with Wicket.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However when it comes to the real collaboration
> >> and
> >> >> UI
> >> >> > effects I think
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we will heavily use jQuery.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will first have to integrate our application
> >> in a
> >> >> > Maven styled
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> project.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess we can still use ANT to compile certain
> >> >> aspect
> >> >> > of our
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application, Maven can trigger ANT build
> scripts.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be a perfect tool for us.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However some of the Ivy dependency management
> >> might
> >> >> be
> >> >> > difficult to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up. Lets try that out.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <
> [email protected]
> >> >:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Sebastian,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sorry for the late reply (was out of city with
> no
> >> >> > internet access)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While proposing using Apache Wicket I thought
> of
> >> >> > following:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Displaying of lists: configuration, language
> >> >> > labels, rooms etc.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Use of Ajax to refresh only parts of page
> >> >> displayed.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We definitely can use JS libraries (like jQuery
> >> UI)
> >> >> > only but this
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make code less readable. I believe Apache
> Wicket
> >> >> will
> >> >> > be good for
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admin menu etc. And we can easily add jQuery UI
> >> to
> >> >> it.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of Wicket we can use Spring MVC and
> >> >> Velocity.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have proposed Wicket only because I have more
> >> >> > experience with it
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from my point of view it is easy to maintain.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:23 AM,
> >> >> > [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After some discussion I would like to propose
> to
> >> >> > integrate Apache
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wicket and try it out.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have update the document:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please add your notes.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
> >> >> > [email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This would be my proposal:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
> >> >> > [email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What if we instead of Apache Wicket use
> Apache
> >> >> > Velocity to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basic structure of the HTML websites?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All dynamically loaded data, rendering of
> >> items
> >> >> > could be then
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> done by jQuery.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That way we will have a set of html
> templates
> >> to
> >> >> > work on and a UI
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> framework to manipulate it.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
> >> >> > [email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to share this use-case
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the next iteration I would like to put
> the
> >> >> Chat
> >> >> > box as a
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> permanent
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> box similar to what is in Google+ and
> >> Facebook
> >> >> on
> >> >> > the bottom.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That mean no matter where you go, admin
> >> section,
> >> >> > room list,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dashboard
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> => the chat always stays the same, so a
> >> complete
> >> >> > page refresh is
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not possible.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would simply replace the DIV that
> contains
> >> the
> >> >> > main content
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with new
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one when switching between main menu
> entries.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about that?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would that affect the framework
> >> discussion?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
> >> >> > [email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to rendering and UI
> component
> >> >> > frameworks you come
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects like:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wiquery
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.7thweb.net/jquery-ui-samples/
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simple search for "Apache Wicket UI
> samples"
> >> >> and
> >> >> > you find tons
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jQuery examples that are used in Apache
> >> Wicket.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So from my point of view Apache Wicket is
> >> >> simply
> >> >> > no UI
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> framework. It
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a web-framework. How things render is
> not
> >> >> part
> >> >> > of it.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Practically
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it might mean that we could combine Apache
> >> >> Wicket
> >> >> > with jQuery
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> too. But
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why use Apache Wicket then at all? We have
> >> >> > already a backend
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Rest
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services and everything. Wicket would
> >> duplicate
> >> >> > that. What
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts of
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wicket would we really use?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <
> >> >> > [email protected]>:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you show examples of Apache Wicket UI
> >> >> > widgets and
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> animation?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 Maxim Solodovnik <
> >> >> [email protected]
> >> >> > >:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend to review Apache
> Wicket.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is MVC it has lots of UI components
> >> like
> >> >> > paged lists table
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> views etc.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It had built-in AJAX support.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In general I'll vote for moving to DHTML
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2012 3:57 PM, "
> >> >> [email protected]"
> >> >> > <
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start a discussion
> about
> >> >> > options to migrate
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roadmap for the upcomfing versions.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is our current situation:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have two client side
> >> >> application
> >> >> > a) + b)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) Audio/Video related stuff is all the
> >> >> SWF10
> >> >> > app
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) whiteboard, administration + all the
> >> rest
> >> >> > in the SWF8 app.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two SWFs communicate via
> >> LocalConnection
> >> >> > with each other.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three options from my point
> of
> >> >> view:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) refactor the SWF8 app to SWF11 and
> >> keep
> >> >> the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LocalConnection
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) refactor the SWF8 and merge SWF8
> with
> >> >> SWF10
> >> >> > app to a
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> single SWF11
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> app and get rid of the LocalConnection
> >> >> > workaround
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) refactor the SWF8 app to HTML5 and
> >> only
> >> >> use
> >> >> > SWF for the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio/video
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 1 is the easiest thing to do
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 2 is the best from architecture
> >> point
> >> >> > of view
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 3 is the best for moving to
> HTML5
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my point of view it would be the
> >> best
> >> >> > option to start
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DHTML
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> refactoring now (in a version 3.0
> branch)
> >> >> and
> >> >> > release the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> current
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trunk tree (as version 2.1).
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the transition to DHTML we have
> >> several
> >> >> > options:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I) Refactor to DHTML using OpenLaszlo
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> II) Refactor to DHTML using a
> JavaScript
> >> >> > framework (jQuery,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dojo,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Wicket, Spring+MVC)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My personal preference is using jQuery.
> >> It
> >> >> > provides
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> components for UI
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and animation and is the most
> widespread.
> >> >> From
> >> >> > a project
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> point of view
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it will be more easy to attract new
> >> >> developers
> >> >> > if they can
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use tools
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they are comfortable in. And I
> >> really
> >> >> > don't want to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> code a client
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side application that requires heavy
> >> usage
> >> >> of
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> page-refresh. That
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be like moving back in time.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some architectural questions
> >> that
> >> >> we
> >> >> > should
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss for the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JavaScript refactoring.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However there should be some kind of
> >> consens
> >> >> > on the overall
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RoadMap first.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what do you think?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> [email protected]
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>> WBR
> >> >> > >>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>> WBR
> >> >> > >>>>> Maxim aka solomax
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> --
> >> >> > >>> WBR
> >> >> > >>> Maxim aka solomax
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > WBR
> >> >> > > Maxim aka solomax
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Sebastian Wagner
> >> >> > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> >> > http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >> > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> >> > [email protected]
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> WBR
> >> >> Maxim aka solomax
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Sebastian Wagner
> >> > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> > http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> > [email protected]
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sebastian Wagner
> >> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >> [email protected]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > WBR
> > Maxim aka solomax
> >
>
>
>
> --
> WBR
> Maxim aka solomax
>



-- 
Sebastian Wagner
https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
http://www.webbase-design.de
http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
[email protected]

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