Great! I hope Oliver will second that approach too :) Sebastian
2012/9/3 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]> > It was multipage. > I'll try to create single page. > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 2:16 PM, [email protected] < > [email protected] > > wrote: > > > I don't get it: Do you plan to refactor to Single Page or Multi Page > Design > > now? > > > > Sebastian > > > > 2012/9/1 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]> > > > > > I did it this way. > > > But this need to be redesigned to be "real" multi-page. > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Oliver becherer > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > hi, > > > > > > > > here my 2 cents again... > > > > > > > > > > > > using wicket, the <wicket:child /> <wicket:extend /> mechanism could > > come > > > > quite handy... > > > > > > > > A surrounding Wicket Page could provide a good basic structure and > > store > > > > components like navigation/feedback panel and so on > > > > > > > > could look like this : > > > > > > > > Main.html : > > > > > > > > <body> > > > > > > > > overall content for every page goes here.... > > > > > > > > ... > > > > <wicket:child /> > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > and here > > > > </body> > > > > > > > > > > > > SpecialPage.html > > > > > > > > > > > > <body> > > > > <wicket:extend> > > > > > > > > ... specific content goes here > > > > > > > > </wicket:extend> > > > > </body> > > > > > > > > > > > > SpecialPage.java : > > > > > > > > > > > > public class SpecialPage extends Main { > > > > > > > > .... > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > The Main page can contain all the common stuff (navigation, feedback > > > > panels, ...) and it's accessible from inherited pages... > > > > AFAIK , on every call for SpecificPage.html a new Instance of > Main.java > > > is > > > > created as well, so it provides no static context for all derived > pages > > > by > > > > default, > > > > but stuff like the chat context and so on would better be stored in > the > > > > session context anyway, i think - so a static chat handler could > > provide > > > > chat messages over the pages, even if > > > > its rendered from another page after navigating to another wicket > > > page... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind regards > > > > > > > > O > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 01.09.2012 um 16:25 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik: > > > > > > > > > Ye you are right. > > > > > Modules can be created as Wicket panels and maintained this way. > > > > > But in case of pages you need to find a page and you will get all > its > > > > > components, in case of panels you have only 1 page and you need to > > > guess, > > > > > which panel need to be modified etc. > > > > > > > > > > I agree it is no problem to construct a page using panels > > > > > It is also possible to parse incoming URL (it is made automatically > > by > > > > > PageParameters object) > > > > > but it will be very hard to show URL need to be bookmarked (I > believe > > > it > > > > > will be impossible using both JS and Wicket, since changing the URL > > > > always > > > > > mean page reload) > > > > > > > > > > I still think multipage is both" developer friendly" and "user > > > friendly". > > > > > I'll try to implement the chat (since it is "key" component) and > see > > if > > > > it > > > > > will be possible. > > > > > > > > > > Current structure of pages is: > > > > > > > > > > *abstract BasePage* (the main page with no authorization, with OM > > > header, > > > > > logo name etc.) > > > > > *SignInPage extends BasePage* (page with no authorization > displaying > > > > login > > > > > form) > > > > > > > > > > *abstract class UserPage extends BasePage* (page with no body > > available > > > > for > > > > > authenticated users with permission level: USER) > > > > > *MenuPage extends UserPage *(page providing main menu and top links > > > > logout, > > > > > profile etc.) > > > > > *abstract class AdminPage extends MenuPage* (page with no body > > > available > > > > > for authenticated users with permission level: ADMIN) > > > > > *UsersPage extends AdminPage* (page providing functionality for > > > managing > > > > > users, partially on Ajax, need to be refactored) > > > > > > > > > > I really like the idea of having common functionality in base > classes > > > and > > > > > to have multiple pages. > > > > > I believe it will simplify lots of things. > > > > > > > > > > Also I guess in case of multitab all tabs need to reside in memory > > (no > > > > > matter displayed or not) this might enlarge the time page need to > > > render. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:56 PM, [email protected] < > > > > [email protected] > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> What should be harder to maintain in a single page design? > > > > >> > > > > >> Have a look at the AjaxTabbedPanel in Wicket and this example: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://javathoughts.capesugarbird.com/2007/11/ajax-tabbed-panel-with-lazy-loading.html > > > > >> > > > > >> It actually will create regular sub-pages (TabOne/TabTwo). So > > having a > > > > >> Single Page Design in the client has nothing todo with how many > > pages > > > > you > > > > >> have on Wicket server side to maintain. > > > > >> So you still have 3 HTML websites that you can style, maintain and > > > code > > > > >> separated. > > > > >> So from mudularization and maintenance I see no difference. > > > > >> > > > > >> The same can be done with what we have now, we only need to have a > > > Menu > > > > >> instead of a Tabbar and use that to load the components. > > > > >> > > > > >> Sebastian > > > > >> > > > > >> 2012/9/1 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]> > > > > >> > > > > >>> Single page application will be really to maintain. > > > > >>> Single page application will be really hard to maintain. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> sorry > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Maxim Solodovnik < > > > [email protected] > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> I'll read about real time communication (have no experience with > > it) > > > > >>>> Single page application will be really to maintain. > > > > >>>> I'll try to create simple chat example to test how does it fit > > into > > > > >>>> multipage (most probably in the beginning of the next week) > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM, [email protected] < > > > > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> I agree that there might be exceptions: > > > > >>>>> For example the SignIn.html could stay an extra page. No need > to > > > > >> bother > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>> application with authentication stuff for now. > > > > >>>>> Also as in the SignIn process there is no need for > > > > >>> RealTime-Communication. > > > > >>>>> But for the rest, I don't see another way, then doing it with a > > > > >>>>> Single-Page > > > > >>>>> Design. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> 2012/9/1 [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> If you have multiple pages the chat will refresh everytime you > > > > >> change > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>>> menu entry. It is also just an example, we could also have > other > > > > >>>>> real-time > > > > >>>>>> updated components that should stay throughout the whole > > session. > > > > >> You > > > > >>>>> can > > > > >>>>>> hardly push messages to a websites if the user constantly > could > > > > >>>>>> refresh/re-enter the website. > > > > >>>>>> I guess WebSockets also require you to stay on the same > website > > > all > > > > >>> the > > > > >>>>>> time, and not switch permanently from one page to another. > > > Otherwise > > > > >>> you > > > > >>>>>> would constantly re-open the socket and close it xxx times > when > > > the > > > > >>> user > > > > >>>>>> browse's the website. > > > > >>>>>> Page Refresh + WebSockets/Real time communication just does > not > > > fit > > > > >>>>>> together from my point of view. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> I think you can also access the browser's URL by using > > JavaScript. > > > > >> For > > > > >>>>>> example you could read also the GET parameters of the URL and > > > based > > > > >> on > > > > >>>>> that > > > > >>>>>> send the user to the "bookmarked" area. > > > > >>>>>> Anyhow, bookmarking subpages should be not the reason why we > > stick > > > > >> to > > > > >>>>>> multi-page design. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> 2012/9/1 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Hello Sebastian, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I agree we need to use Ajax to make pages smooth. > > > > >>>>>>> But I thought about multiple pages to make page bookmarking > > > > >>> available. > > > > >>>>>>> The main page of wicket application is currently mapped to: > > > > >>>>>>> http://localhost:5080/openmeetings/html > > > > >>>>>>> For example I would like to make following pages: > > > > >>>>>>> html -- dashboard > > > > >>>>>>> html/signin > > > > >>>>>>> html/logout > > > > >>>>>>> html/calendar > > > > >>>>>>> html/admin/users > > > > >>>>>>> etc ... > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> all navigations/loadings will be via Ajax inside the pages > > above. > > > > >>>>>>> Chat will be present as component added to the footer of the > > main > > > > >>> page. > > > > >>>>>>> (all other pages will derive from it) > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 2:50 PM, [email protected] < > > > > >>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Hi Maxim, > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> thanks for adding the Wicket components! > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> I would like to discuss some basic architectural questions > of > > > the > > > > >>>>>>>> website before we are going to implement the modules in > > detail. > > > > >>>>>>>> What is important to me it that we build a Single Page > > > > >> Application > > > > >>>>>>>> (SPA). That means instead of generating links to subpages > that > > > > >>>>>>>> completely re-render the whole page we replace > > > > >>> components/fragements > > > > >>>>>>>> of the website at runtime. > > > > >>>>>>>> From my point of view that is very important as we have a > > number > > > > >> of > > > > >>>>>>>> components that should stay the same or initialized at > > runtime. > > > > >>>>>>>> For example the Chat window should stay open no matter where > > you > > > > >>>>>>>> navigate to. Or for example in the conference room you can > > > create > > > > >>> new > > > > >>>>>>>> instance of the whiteboard. There is no chance to reload > > > > >> everything > > > > >>>>>>>> just to add or remove a component. > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> So I would like to create/find consens about a basic > mechanism > > > of > > > > >>> how > > > > >>>>>>>> to load and create fragements of the website at runtime in > > > Apache > > > > >>>>>>>> Wicket. > > > > >>>>>>>> One solution is to load all components and only make the > > visible > > > > >>> when > > > > >>>>>>>> you need them. I don't think that this is a solution for us > as > > > we > > > > >>>>> just > > > > >>>>>>>> have too many components. Also I think it would be better to > > > load > > > > >>> at > > > > >>>>>>>> runtime so that it is possible to create some kind of plugin > > > > >> loader > > > > >>>>>>>> mechanism later. > > > > >>>>>>>> So now comes the issue: How to realize a dynamic component > > > loader > > > > >>> in > > > > >>>>>>>> Wicket? How to integrate that into our layout? > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Practically it would mean we have a single "Main.html" and > > > > >>>>> "Main.java" > > > > >>>>>>>> and from that one it links / dynamically loads the sub > > > components > > > > >>> via > > > > >>>>>>>> Ajax. > > > > >>>>>>>> That means that we internally of course have sub-pages, > > however > > > > >>> they > > > > >>>>>>>> are loaded via Ajax. > > > > >>>>>>>> There is an example with Modal Dialogue's in Wickets Ajax > > > > >> library: > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >> http://www.wicket-library.com/wicket-examples/ajax/modal-window?9 > > > > >>>>>>>> A similar mechanism should be realized when you click on our > > > main > > > > >>>>> menu > > > > >>>>>>>> and load the content for each sub-section (like > > > > >>> user-administration, > > > > >>>>>>>> dashboard, room-list, et cetera). > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> What do you think, did you run into a similar problem yet? > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> Thanks! > > > > >>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> 2012/8/30 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: > > > > >>>>>>>>> I did create my own SignIn page ant set it in Application > > > > >> derived > > > > >>>>> from > > > > >>>>>>>>> AuthenticatedWebApplication and perform login based on the > > > > >>>>> credentials > > > > >>>>>>>>> entered. > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Oliver becherer > > > > >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> kay, i see... > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> are you using IAuthorizationStrategy Interface? i found > that > > > > >>> very > > > > >>>>>>> handy > > > > >>>>>>>> in setting up wicket apps, since it's easy to extend, when > > > > >> starting > > > > >>>>>>>>>> with page based navigation rules and later on expanding to > > > > >>>>> component > > > > >>>>>>>> based/ action based authentication/navigation rules... > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it's also quite good when its planned to provide deep > links > > > > >> into > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> application, throwing user back to login page with > > > > >>>>>>>> RestartResponseAtInterceptPageException in case he's not > > > > >>>>> authenticated > > > > >>>>>>> and > > > > >>>>>>>> redirecting him to deep link page after login... > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> thanks for the update! > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> O > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Am 30.08.2012 um 11:18 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik: > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> for a better understanding : why is the login performed > > with > > > > >>>>> jQuery > > > > >>>>>>>> instead of the default Authentication mechanisms provided by > > > > >>> wicket? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Standard Wicket login page was replaced with custom form > so > > > > >>> login > > > > >>>>>>> via > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> LDAP can be implemented. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Login is not performed using jQuery, login form is just > > > > >> wrapped > > > > >>>>> with > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> jQuery dialog to look similar to current Om login dialog. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Oliver becherer > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> hi, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> this is great news for me - unfortunately, i've been > > > > >> inactive > > > > >>>>> for a > > > > >>>>>>>> long time in OM now, but will try to catch up with you guys. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -> Implementing Wicket as UI technology is perfect way > to > > > > >> go, > > > > >>>>> in my > > > > >>>>>>>> opinion, since we can reduce the technology stack for > > developing > > > > >> OM > > > > >>>>> on > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> long run (as soon as openLaszlo is no longer required in > > future > > > > >>> times > > > > >>>>>>> ^^). > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Chapeau! from my side... > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> for a better understanding : why is the login performed > > with > > > > >>>>> jQuery > > > > >>>>>>>> instead of the default Authentication mechanisms provided by > > > > >>> wicket? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> thanks! > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> O > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Am 30.08.2012 um 09:53 schrieb Maxim Solodovnik: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no public server to run this. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You can run it locally: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) svn up > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) edit web.xml (uncomment Wicket Filter) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) ant -Ddb=mysql > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) http://localhost:5080/openmeetings > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Alexei Fedotov > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim, that's great! > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can I check a demo somewhere? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Maxim Solodovnik < > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just have commited Initial "HelloWorld" OM Wicket > > > > >>> application > > > > >>>>>>> (to > > > > >>>>>>>> use > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to uncomment wicket filter in web.xml) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What was done: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Wicket is starts and handle pages > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) All OM labels are displayed from DB > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) You can login using your OM username/pass (login > > > > >> dialog > > > > >>>>> uses > > > > >>>>>>>> jQuery > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI dialog) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) OM user levels are in effect (user or admin) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) OM Navi menu is displayed from the DB > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) Navi link to Admin users page displays stub for > > admin > > > > >>>>> users > > > > >>>>>>> page > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What was not done: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) wicket currently handles all URLs (this is why it > is > > > > >>>>>>> currently > > > > >>>>>>>> commented) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Entity list is not displayed from the DB as paged > > > > >> table > > > > >>>>>>> (going > > > > >>>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do as next task) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look and tell me what do you think? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:08 PM, > [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There have been no votes against using OpenLaszlo > and > > > > >>>>> compile > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DHTML. However the OpenLaszlo project seems > currently > > no > > > > >>>>> more > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintained. There has been no release since 2010 of > > the > > > > >>>>>>> project. > > > > >>>>>>>> The > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comunity has downsized by factor of 10. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the community activity in the last years: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>> > > http://www.openlaszlo.org/pipermail/laszlo-dev/2012-June/024912.html > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is likely that if we are switching to DHTML that > we > > > > >>> will > > > > >>>>> run > > > > >>>>>>>> into > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues as soon as new browser features of HTML5 will > > > > >> come > > > > >>>>> up as > > > > >>>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Openlaszlo platform does not implement them. It > would > > be > > > > >>>>>>> actually > > > > >>>>>>>> our > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> task not only to develop OpenMeetings but also > > > > >> OpenLaszlo. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As DHTML compilation is a quite future orientated > > task I > > > > >>>>> think > > > > >>>>>>> we > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should choose technology that support mobile devices > > and > > > > >>>>>>>> constantly > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improves its cross-browser capibilities. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And last but not least the question is of course: > How > > > > >> can > > > > >>> we > > > > >>>>>>>> attract > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new users? Chossing OpenLaszlo does actively > look-out > > > > >>>>> people as > > > > >>>>>>>> they > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are not willing to learn it. We will have much > better > > > > >>>>> chances > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>> find > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new contributors if we choose a technology people > are > > > > >>>>> familiar > > > > >>>>>>>> with. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jQuery and Wicket do not bundle out of the box, > simply > > > > >>>>> because > > > > >>>>>>>> jQuery > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an UI framework and Wicket is a server side > > > > >> framework. > > > > >>>>> There > > > > >>>>>>>> are > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects and components that combine jQuery and > Wicket > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wiquery/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/jqwicket/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wickext/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wicket-jquery-ui/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.7thweb.net/jquery-ui-samples/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And those are only the "projects" actually combining > > > > >> those > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technologies needs nothing more then an import > > statement > > > > >>> of > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> jQuery > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> library in the page header. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *It make little sense copying existing workflow. It > > adds > > > > >>>>> value > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improve the workflow.* > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> => I agree on that, however Flash is dead. We have > to > > > > >>>>> provide a > > > > >>>>>>>> DHTML > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternative. We will not replace our server side > > > > >> workflow. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *We need to add value to the product on any step. > That > > > > >>>>> makes us > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-oriented, not technology oriented.* > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> => We will keep existing Flash frontend as long as > its > > > > >>>>> needed. > > > > >>>>>>> It > > > > >>>>>>>> is > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my intention to have a running OpenMeetings package > > all > > > > >>> the > > > > >>>>>>> time. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Maybe we should use java management API and embed > the > > > > >>>>> existing > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> management console? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should ship admin as a separate release > > bundle? > > > > >>>>>>> Splitting > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will help re-using other technologies. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should ask designer guys on look & feel > > > > >> concept, > > > > >>>>> and > > > > >>>>>>>> apply it > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to our product?* > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> => Sorry but now you are actually the one the > broadens > > > > >> the > > > > >>>>>>> whole > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion to a much larger scale. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you that we need to define small steps > to > > > > >>>>> improve > > > > >>>>>>>> our project. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But having more modularization like "separate > release > > > > >>>>> bundle" > > > > >>>>>>> has > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually nothing to do with DHTML compilation. It is > > > > >> just > > > > >>>>>>> another > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic. Same as "ask designer guys on look & feel > > > > >> concept". > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is just not the topic of DHTML or not. You can > do > > > > >> it > > > > >>>>>>>> regardless > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you compile DHTML or Flash. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/28 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected] > >: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not stop people from volunteering. My thanks > to > > > > >>> Maxim > > > > >>>>>>> for 1) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proactivity; 2) good technology choice. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I missed few items, Maxim told the first one is > > > > >> somewhere > > > > >>>>> in > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> thread. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Why not to recompile OpenLaszlo to DHTML? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. What is the plan and is it actually doable? What > > is > > > > >>> time > > > > >>>>>>>> estimate? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My friend who worked for our competior told me that > > > > >> they > > > > >>>>> have > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-written design four times during the last for > > years. > > > > >>> We > > > > >>>>>>> don't > > > > >>>>>>>> have > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources for this. So my suggestion would be the > > > > >>>>> following: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Find Openmeetings usability problems or most > > wanted > > > > >>>>>>> features. > > > > >>>>>>>> Maybe > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marco can help. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Develop that using new technology, making minor > > > > >>>>>>> adjustments to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already working things. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So main concerns > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. It make little sense copying existing workflow. > It > > > > >>> adds > > > > >>>>>>> value > > > > >>>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improve the workflow. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. We need to add value to the product on any step. > > > > >> That > > > > >>>>>>> makes us > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-oriented, not technology oriented. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How good wicket is with jquery? It does not seem to > > > > >> work > > > > >>>>> with > > > > >>>>>>>> jquery > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of the box. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:51 AM, > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What are your alternatives? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are already people volunteering to start > > > > >>>>> contributing > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>> it. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It can be realized without breaking functionality, > > we > > > > >>>>> still > > > > >>>>>>>> have the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flash interface available while we build DHTML. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/28 Alexei Fedotov < > [email protected] > > >: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guys, please do not rush, let me think a bit. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM, > > > > >>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik < > [email protected] > > >: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer develop in trunk. I would vote for > this > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2012 3:49 PM, " > [email protected]" > > < > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds good. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you want to create a new branch for the > DHTML > > > > >>> tree > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or will trunk become the DHTML tree and we > > create > > > > >> a > > > > >>>>> 2.1 > > > > >>>>>>>> branch ? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik < > > [email protected] > > > > >>> : > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need to add following lines to our > ivy.xml: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dependency > > org="org.apache.wicket" > > > > >>>>>>>> name="wicket-core" > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rev="6.0.0-beta3" conf="openmeetings->*"/> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and that is all > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can create "sample Om main page" and them > > both > > > > >> of > > > > >>>>> as > > > > >>>>>>> can > > > > >>>>>>>> add > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components to it. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, > > > > >>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wickets standard project setup require > Maven. > > > > >> What > > > > >>>>> is > > > > >>>>>>>> your proposal to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrate Wicket into the current stack? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik < > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > >>>> : > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't really understand why do we need > > maven? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why ant+ivy is not enough? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always thought it is similar tools. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could you please explain it? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:10 PM, > > > > >>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well lets give it a try with Wicket. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However when it comes to the real > > > > >> collaboration > > > > >>>>> and > > > > >>>>>>> UI > > > > >>>>>>>> effects I think > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we will heavily use jQuery. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will first have to integrate our > > > > >> application > > > > >>>>> in a > > > > >>>>>>>> Maven styled > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess we can still use ANT to compile > > > > >> certain > > > > >>>>>>> aspect > > > > >>>>>>>> of our > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application, Maven can trigger ANT build > > > > >>> scripts. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be a perfect tool for us. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However some of the Ivy dependency > > management > > > > >>>>> might > > > > >>>>>>> be > > > > >>>>>>>> difficult to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up. Lets try that out. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik < > > > > >>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>> : > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Sebastian, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sorry for the late reply (was out of city > > > > >> with > > > > >>> no > > > > >>>>>>>> internet access) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While proposing using Apache Wicket I > > thought > > > > >>> of > > > > >>>>>>>> following: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Displaying of lists: configuration, > > > > >> language > > > > >>>>>>>> labels, rooms etc. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Use of Ajax to refresh only parts of > > page > > > > >>>>>>> displayed. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We definitely can use JS libraries (like > > > > >> jQuery > > > > >>>>> UI) > > > > >>>>>>>> only but this > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make code less readable. I believe Apache > > > > >>> Wicket > > > > >>>>>>> will > > > > >>>>>>>> be good for > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admin menu etc. And we can easily add > > jQuery > > > > >> UI > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>> it. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of Wicket we can use Spring MVC > and > > > > >>>>>>> Velocity. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have proposed Wicket only because I > have > > > > >> more > > > > >>>>>>>> experience with it > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from my point of view it is easy to > > maintain. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:23 AM, > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After some discussion I would like to > > > > >> propose > > > > >>> to > > > > >>>>>>>> integrate Apache > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wicket and try it out. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have update the document: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please add your notes. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] < > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]>: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This would be my proposal: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] < > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]>: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What if we instead of Apache Wicket > use > > > > >>> Apache > > > > >>>>>>>> Velocity to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basic structure of the HTML websites? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All dynamically loaded data, rendering > > of > > > > >>>>> items > > > > >>>>>>>> could be then > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done by jQuery. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That way we will have a set of html > > > > >>> templates > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>> work on and a UI > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> framework to manipulate it. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] < > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]>: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to share this use-case > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the next iteration I would like to > > put > > > > >>> the > > > > >>>>>>> Chat > > > > >>>>>>>> box as a > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permanent > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> box similar to what is in Google+ and > > > > >>>>> Facebook > > > > >>>>>>> on > > > > >>>>>>>> the bottom. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That mean no matter where you go, > admin > > > > >>>>> section, > > > > >>>>>>>> room list, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dashboard > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> => the chat always stays the same, > so a > > > > >>>>> complete > > > > >>>>>>>> page refresh is > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not possible. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would simply replace the DIV that > > > > >>> contains > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>> main content > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with new > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one when switching between main menu > > > > >>> entries. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think about that? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would that affect the framework > > > > >>>>> discussion? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] < > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]>: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to rendering and UI > > > > >>> component > > > > >>>>>>>> frameworks you come > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects like: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wiquery > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >> http://www.7thweb.net/jquery-ui-samples/ > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simple search for "Apache Wicket UI > > > > >>> samples" > > > > >>>>>>> and > > > > >>>>>>>> you find tons > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jQuery examples that are used in > > Apache > > > > >>>>> Wicket. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So from my point of view Apache > Wicket > > > > >> is > > > > >>>>>>> simply > > > > >>>>>>>> no UI > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> framework. It > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a web-framework. How things > render > > is > > > > >>> not > > > > >>>>>>> part > > > > >>>>>>>> of it. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Practically > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it might mean that we could combine > > > > >> Apache > > > > >>>>>>> Wicket > > > > >>>>>>>> with jQuery > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too. But > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why use Apache Wicket then at all? > We > > > > >> have > > > > >>>>>>>> already a backend > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Rest > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Services and everything. Wicket > would > > > > >>>>> duplicate > > > > >>>>>>>> that. What > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts of > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wicket would we really use? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] < > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]>: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you show examples of Apache > > Wicket > > > > >> UI > > > > >>>>>>>> widgets and > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> animation? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 Maxim Solodovnik < > > > > >>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>> : > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend to review Apache > > > > >>> Wicket. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is MVC it has lots of UI > > components > > > > >>>>> like > > > > >>>>>>>> paged lists table > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> views etc. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It had built-in AJAX support. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In general I'll vote for moving to > > > > >> DHTML > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2012 3:57 PM, " > > > > >>>>>>> [email protected]" > > > > >>>>>>>> < > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start a > discussion > > > > >>> about > > > > >>>>>>>> options to migrate > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roadmap for the upcomfing > versions. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is our current situation: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have two client side > > > > >>>>>>> application > > > > >>>>>>>> a) + b) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a) Audio/Video related stuff is > all > > > > >> the > > > > >>>>>>> SWF10 > > > > >>>>>>>> app > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b) whiteboard, administration + > all > > > > >> the > > > > >>>>> rest > > > > >>>>>>>> in the SWF8 app. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two SWFs communicate via > > > > >>>>> LocalConnection > > > > >>>>>>>> with each other. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three options from my > > point > > > > >>> of > > > > >>>>>>> view: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) refactor the SWF8 app to SWF11 > > and > > > > >>>>> keep > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LocalConnection > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) refactor the SWF8 and merge > SWF8 > > > > >>> with > > > > >>>>>>> SWF10 > > > > >>>>>>>> app to a > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> single SWF11 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> app and get rid of the > > > > >> LocalConnection > > > > >>>>>>>> workaround > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) refactor the SWF8 app to HTML5 > > and > > > > >>>>> only > > > > >>>>>>> use > > > > >>>>>>>> SWF for the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio/video > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 1 is the easiest thing to > do > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 2 is the best from > > > > >> architecture > > > > >>>>> point > > > > >>>>>>>> of view > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option 3 is the best for moving > to > > > > >>> HTML5 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my point of view it would be > > the > > > > >>>>> best > > > > >>>>>>>> option to start > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DHTML > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> refactoring now (in a version 3.0 > > > > >>> branch) > > > > >>>>>>> and > > > > >>>>>>>> release the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trunk tree (as version 2.1). > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the transition to DHTML we > have > > > > >>>>> several > > > > >>>>>>>> options: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I) Refactor to DHTML using > > OpenLaszlo > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> II) Refactor to DHTML using a > > > > >>> JavaScript > > > > >>>>>>>> framework (jQuery, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dojo, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Wicket, Spring+MVC) > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My personal preference is using > > > > >> jQuery. > > > > >>>>> It > > > > >>>>>>>> provides > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components for UI > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and animation and is the most > > > > >>> widespread. > > > > >>>>>>> From > > > > >>>>>>>> a project > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point of view > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it will be more easy to attract > new > > > > >>>>>>> developers > > > > >>>>>>>> if they can > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use tools > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they are comfortable in. > And I > > > > >>>>> really > > > > >>>>>>>> don't want to > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code a client > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side application that requires > > heavy > > > > >>>>> usage > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > >>>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page-refresh. That > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be like moving back in > time. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some architectural > > > > >> questions > > > > >>>>> that > > > > >>>>>>> we > > > > >>>>>>>> should > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss for the > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JavaScript refactoring. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However there should be some kind > > of > > > > >>>>> consens > > > > >>>>>>>> on the overall > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RoadMap first. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what do you think? > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> WBR > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>>> WBR > > > > >>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>> WBR > > > > >>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> -- > > > > >>>>> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >>>>> [email protected] > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> -- > > > > >>>> WBR > > > > >>>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> -- > > > > >>> WBR > > > > >>> Maxim aka solomax > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> Sebastian Wagner > > > > >> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > > > >> http://www.webbase-design.de > > > > >> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > WBR > > > > > Maxim aka solomax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > WBR > > > Maxim aka solomax > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sebastian Wagner > > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock > > http://www.webbase-design.de > > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com > > [email protected] > > > > > > -- > WBR > Maxim aka solomax > -- Sebastian Wagner https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock http://www.webbase-design.de http://www.wagner-sebastian.com [email protected]
