I personally think that there are two issues here - one is the current architecture and the other is the future. I think that while working on current "pragmatic" solutions we should always have in mind the future - the future to me is unlimited concurrent online and the number of agents within a giving location/area being limited to only how close each can be packed - ie. how many college students in a phone booth.
So, when adding/changing/fixing the pragmatic, we should always ask ourselves does this advance us to the future, stand in place, or regress toward the past... Chris Hart wrote: > > I certainly don’t see 1000 on a single region as remotely possible > under current architecture, not disputing that. I do have to wonder > what people consider as being an event suitable for 1000 people in a > single region – that’s a lot of people in not a lot of space (though > thinking in three dimensions might help), but what do you gain from > such an event? Chat alone would be almost overwhelming, and with 95% > of attendees not knowing how to pan the camera most of them would see > nothing but the head of the person infront of them – so I guess if you > want to emulate real life, you got it. > > You’re right to push the parameters to the extreme, because in the > absence of 1000 friends to test a simultaneous login, we all have to > improvise, so if it’s a case of loading up as many avatars as possible > with all clothing layers made with high-res textures, wearing a > thousand prims each, etc. then yes, it’s not an entirely unreasonable > scale test. > > *From:* [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Nebadon Izumi > *Sent:* 26 January 2009 17:19 > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] weird idea #1: lightweight agent/ spectator > > well i think your sorta missing the point, say i did reduce my avatar > login footprint by 10, that would only mean that if 10 people > simulatanously logged in, which if your talking about 1000 avatars at > once is going to happen, it means that you will get the same results > if 10 avatars hit at once, so honestly even if we reduce the footprint > by 90% we still have the same problem on logins, the biggest problem i > see is mass login, when your talking about getting 1000 avatars into a > region for a single event, especially if it crashes you could be > potentially looking at over 100 avatars trying to log in at the same > time, how do we handle this?? if your talking about 1000 avatars you > need to talk about exteme usage case, not just fractional usage. > > Neb > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Chris Hart <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > If a 1700 prim avatar using every attach point is not a mildly extreme > case I don't know what is! J The same rules apply to OpenSim as it > does on SL – performance and headcount depends on the crowd you get in > for an event and the design of the sim itself. Build a sim with many > thousands of highly textured prims and complex scripts and you might > as well just cut down your ram, step down your processor, and accept > defeat. Code optimisation is nothing without a little care and > attention on the part of the sim designer to make the experience as > smooth as possible for attendees. > > Maybe there's a requirement / option to have an "event" mode where you > block all attachments and deny access to inventory items to maximise > the number of visitors if you really want to get 1000 users in a > confined space, and consider using some texture simplification on the > regions in question, configurable for a region server at startup? > > *From:* [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > [mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Nebadon > Izumi > *Sent:* 26 January 2009 17:01 > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] weird idea #1: lightweight agent/ spectator > > Minor mistake in my last posting, it should have read (8000 variously > texture prims in the ballpark of about 500+ texures or so). > > and since i am recommenting again, i think its important that when we > talk about 1000 users, we are not talking about 1000 ruths with zero > inventory and not chatting and doing real world things, pcampbot is a > horrible representaion of 1000 like i said before every 1000 pcampbots > is probably not even equal to 20 real world avatars actually doing > something with the simulator. > > Neb > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Nebadon Izumi <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > the only bad thing about bringing up the Pcampbot login test was at > the time pcampbot was not pulling assets down from the scene locally > to itself, so realisticly those 1000 pcampbots were probably > generating about the same amount of login traffic that about 10-20 > avatars would have been likely. The only real solution to this problem > will likely be load balancing and many servers working together to > break the 100 avatar limit, the chances that 1 server will be serving > 1000 avatars is completely impossible, i honestly dont think we can > ever optimize it enough for even the fastest servers to deal in 1000 > avatars, though i do hope we can atleast get to around 100 or more. > One test I have done recently that throws a monkey wrench into my > thinking about this, my Region (OKC) Ka which is about 12000 prims and > running just over 1000 scripts, when trying to log into the region > with just 1 avatar that is wearing a 1700 prim avatar that uses every > single attach point, i am 100% unable to log into the sim ever. One > other thing to note is that my avatar has between 11k-12k inventory > items and basiclly trying to access any simulator with more than about > 1000 variously textured prims in the ballpark of about 500+ textures > or so (even afer running the predecode-j2k) i am unable to log in at > all. So again if 1 avatar cant access the sim, i personallly dont see > 1000 avatars entering a simulator anytime soon if at all ever, atleast > like I said in the 1 server world, this is probably going to require > some major hardware/pipes to achieve. > > Neb > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1909 - Release Date: > 25/01/2009 18:13 > > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1909 - Release Date: > 25/01/2009 18:13 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.13/1916 - Release Date: 1/26/2009 > 7:08 AM > > _______________________________________________ Opensim-dev mailing list [email protected] https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
