Is it possible te test what the impact on the performance of opensim is when it uses mono 2.10 or even mono 3.0 instead of mono 2.6 ?
For most linux systems it is no longer an issue to upgrade mono. In the past it was, but time changes. I think opensim should go for performance and not the lowest possible version. 2013/1/27 Ilan Tochner <[email protected]> > We use Linux too and have downloaded and used versions of mono that were > not officially supported by the distro/version we used. There are > alternative repositories people can use that are just a Google search away. > > IMO, supporting outdated mono versions is a luxury we can't afford in our > volunteer-based project where the few developers that contribute code are > focused on modern mono versions. > > We won't be spending resources on supporting old mono versions but I > assume from your reply that you will be. As you are one of the people who > help move OpenSim forward, this use of your time will negatively effect > most OpenSim users as your time could have been much better spent improving > OpenSim for modern versions of mono (I'm being liberal calling the 2 year > old mono 2.10 release modern). > > Your time, your decision but your choice to spend it on outdated > middleware will negatively effect OpenSim's progress. It really is your > call, I've said my say about the subject. > > > Cheers, > > Ilan Tochner > Co-Founder and CEO > Kitely Ltd. > > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Melanie <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Since you have already stated that you will not support older >> versions, our decision will not affect you in any way. >> >> We have, for a long time, used mono 2.4 as the base simply because >> versions of distros in common use don't offer it as part of their >> repo. OpenSim targets not only Windows users but all operating >> systems, including Linux. As long as people use versions of Linux >> that don't natively supply 2.10, we cannot make it our baseline. >> That is simply not open for discussion. >> >> Melanie >> >> On 27/01/2013 21:56, Ilan Tochner wrote: >> > That's all well and good but saying we support mono version 2.6 and >> > actually supporting it are two very different things. >> > >> > Who here is willing to spend their time fixing problems that only >> appear in >> > versions before mono 2.10? (this isn't a rhetorical question, if you are >> > willing to commit to doing so then please reply and let the group know) >> > >> > If anyone is, do you think that doing so is better use of our limited >> > development resources than telling the person who had the problem to >> just >> > upgrade to a slightly more modern version of mono that can be easily >> > installed? >> > >> > It makes sense not to drop support for old operating systems, as they >> > usually can't be easily upgraded, but installing a newer version of >> mono is >> > very simple when there are repositories you can just apt get / rpm it >> from. >> > >> > What exactly will be served by saying mono 2.6 is supported when no one >> > will invest (waste?) their time debugging for it? Wouldn't our users be >> > better served by having OpenSim run as best as it can (given our limited >> > resources) on a better performing version of mono that those users can >> > easily install? >> > >> > I know Kitely won't be spending resources on debugging for old mono >> > releases so my only horse in this is wanting OpenSim to advance as >> quickly >> > as it can without leaving people behind. Setting mono 2.10 as the >> baseline >> > makes it easier for this open source dev community to accomplish this >> goal. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Ilan Tochner >> > Co-Founder and CEO >> > Kitely Ltd. >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Melanie <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> It has always been our policy to use the _lowest_ version of Mono >> >> that we can get by on to support the largest possible number of >> >> configurations and systems. >> >> >> >> This is not going to change. >> >> >> >> The feature required by recent code additions is found in Mono 2.6, >> >> so we are discussing Mono 2.6 now. We are not discussing Mono 2.10. >> >> >> >> Melanie >> >> >> >> On 27/01/2013 15:32, Ilan Tochner wrote: >> >> > If, as we both agree, OpenSim works differently with different >> versions >> >> of >> >> > mono then people are going to report bugs that exist when OpenSim is >> run >> >> on >> >> > mono versions prior to 2.10 that don't exist with mono version 2.10 >> and >> >> > later. >> >> > >> >> > How many people are there in the OpenSim dev community that still >> >> actively >> >> > use a mono version prior to 2.10? In fact, AFAIK, many devs are >> already >> >> > looking to see when they can safely move to mono 3.0. So, who is >> going to >> >> > work on fixing bugs that no longer exist with mono 2.10 and later? >> If no >> >> > ones is going to work on doing that then we can't honestly say that >> mono >> >> > 2.6 or 2.8 are still supported. >> >> > >> >> > If we intend to have new OpenSim users, we should have them using the >> >> mono >> >> > version with which they'll get the best experience with the existing >> / >> >> > future code base. It doesn't help anyone if they use an outdated >> version >> >> of >> >> > mono and find that the problems they encounter aren't going to be >> >> addressed >> >> > because they no longer exist with newer versions of mono. >> >> > >> >> > Cheers, >> >> > >> >> > Ilan Tochner >> >> > Co-Founder and CEO >> >> > Kitely Ltd. >> >> > >> >> > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Dahlia Trimble < >> [email protected] >> >> >wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Nobody is asking you to use an older version. The minimum version is >> >> >> simply the earliest version that would be required to run >> OpenSimulator. >> >> >> Anyone is free to use any later version if they so choose. >> >> >> >> >> >> It's also not true that later versions are necessarily better. I've >> >> >> personally had to disable features in OpenSimulator and remove them >> from >> >> >> core due to newer versions of Mono which introduced new bugs that >> made >> >> such >> >> >> features unusable. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:05 AM, Ilan Tochner <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Mono 2.10 was released Feb 15th, 2011, i.e almost two years ago. I >> >> don't >> >> >>> think there is any target platform that mono 2.6 runs on that >> doesn't >> >> have >> >> >>> mono 2.10 working on it as well. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> There have been many bug fixes in mono between the 2.6 release and >> the >> >> >>> 2.10 release, some of which can definitely effect OpenSim >> performance >> >> and >> >> >>> stability. Who would choose to use the older mono version when a >> >> better one >> >> >>> has been available for at least two years? If someone reports a >> problem >> >> >>> with OpenSim I think we should require them to at least test it >> using >> >> mono >> >> >>> 2.10 so we can rule out the older mono being the cause of the >> problem. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Cheers, >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Ilan Tochner >> >> >>> Co-Founder and CEO >> >> >>> Kitely Ltd. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Dahlia Trimble < >> >> [email protected]>wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> I think the point is raise it to the minimum version which >> supports >> >> the >> >> >>>> codebase. If there was some feature in 2.10 that did not exist in >> 2.6 >> >> and >> >> >>>> that feature was required for proper execution, then 2.10 would >> be a >> >> better >> >> >>>> target. Otherwise it would just be forcing people to upgrade who >> >> would not >> >> >>>> otherwise need to. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> There's nothing stopping anyone from upgrading to 2.10 if they >> desire, >> >> >>>> however, requiring a higher version than is really necessary >> limits >> >> >>>> potential users of the software to those who are able to install >> those >> >> >>>> versions in their setups. If a goal of OpenSimulator developers is >> >> wide >> >> >>>> adoption, then it makes sense to have it be usable on as many >> existing >> >> >>>> hardware/software configurations as possible. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Ilan Tochner <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> I second setting 2.10 as the base. If we'll be forcing people to >> >> >>>>> upgrade I think we should upgrade to the latest stable release >> and >> >> not to >> >> >>>>> one that is outdated. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> If OpenSim works fine with 3.0 then I'd vote for it to be the >> base. >> >> If >> >> >>>>> we're still calling OpenSim alpha we should at least get the >> >> benefits of >> >> >>>>> doing so. Supporting old versions of mono is a waste of developer >> >> resources. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Cheers, >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> Ilan Tochner >> >> >>>>> Co-Founder and CEO >> >> >>>>> Kitely Ltd. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Trinity <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> if we can get a way with it why not go to 2.10 else quickly be >> out >> >> of >> >> >>>>>> date agian >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:38 AM, James Hughes < >> >> >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> +1 >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> On 01/24/2013 10:29 PM, Justin Clark-Casey wrote: >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Whilst writing JsonStore regression tests this evening, I hit >> the >> >> >>>>>>>> problem where modInvoke script methods of more than 4 >> parameters >> >> >>>>>>>> cannot >> >> >>>>>>>> be registered on Mono 2.4.3 as it doesn't implement the >> required >> >> >>>>>>>> larger >> >> >>>>>>>> multi-parameter Func generic types. >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Therefore, I want to bump the minimum Mono version for >> >> OpenSimulator >> >> >>>>>>>> up >> >> >>>>>>>> to 2.6 which was released more than 3 years ago. This also >> >> involves >> >> >>>>>>>> bumping the minimum .net framework version up to 4.0, as also >> >> >>>>>>>> detailed >> >> >>>>>>>> at [1] >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> [1] http://opensimulator.org/**mantis/view.php?id=5971< >> >> http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5971> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Any comments? >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >> >> >>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> >>>>>>> [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev< >> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >> >>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> >>>>> [email protected] >> >> >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> >>>> [email protected] >> >> >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> >>> [email protected] >> >> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> > [email protected] >> >> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Opensim-dev mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > -- Groningen en Hannover Opensims: secondlife://meverhagen.nl:8002:Hannover ZW/
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