Is it possible te test what the impact on the performance of opensim
is when it uses mono 2.10 or even mono 3.0 instead of mono 2.6 ?
For most linux systems it is no longer an issue to upgrade mono. In
the past it was, but time changes.
I think opensim should go for performance and not the lowest possible
version.
2013/1/27 Ilan Tochner <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
We use Linux too and have downloaded and used versions of mono
that were not officially supported by the distro/version we used.
There are alternative repositories people can use that are just a
Google search away.
IMO, supporting outdated mono versions is a luxury we can't afford
in our volunteer-based project where the few developers that
contribute code are focused on modern mono versions.
We won't be spending resources on supporting old mono versions but
I assume from your reply that you will be. As you are one of the
people who help move OpenSim forward, this use of your time will
negatively effect most OpenSim users as your time could have been
much better spent improving OpenSim for modern versions of mono
(I'm being liberal calling the 2 year old mono 2.10 release modern).
Your time, your decision but your choice to spend it on outdated
middleware will negatively effect OpenSim's progress. It really is
your call, I've said my say about the subject.
Cheers,
Ilan Tochner
Co-Founder and CEO
Kitely Ltd.
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Melanie <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Since you have already stated that you will not support older
versions, our decision will not affect you in any way.
We have, for a long time, used mono 2.4 as the base simply because
versions of distros in common use don't offer it as part of their
repo. OpenSim targets not only Windows users but all operating
systems, including Linux. As long as people use versions of Linux
that don't natively supply 2.10, we cannot make it our baseline.
That is simply not open for discussion.
Melanie
On 27/01/2013 21:56, Ilan Tochner wrote:
> That's all well and good but saying we support mono version
2.6 and
> actually supporting it are two very different things.
>
> Who here is willing to spend their time fixing problems that
only appear in
> versions before mono 2.10? (this isn't a rhetorical
question, if you are
> willing to commit to doing so then please reply and let the
group know)
>
> If anyone is, do you think that doing so is better use of
our limited
> development resources than telling the person who had the
problem to just
> upgrade to a slightly more modern version of mono that can
be easily
> installed?
>
> It makes sense not to drop support for old operating
systems, as they
> usually can't be easily upgraded, but installing a newer
version of mono is
> very simple when there are repositories you can just apt get
/ rpm it from.
>
> What exactly will be served by saying mono 2.6 is supported
when no one
> will invest (waste?) their time debugging for it? Wouldn't
our users be
> better served by having OpenSim run as best as it can (given
our limited
> resources) on a better performing version of mono that those
users can
> easily install?
>
> I know Kitely won't be spending resources on debugging for
old mono
> releases so my only horse in this is wanting OpenSim to
advance as quickly
> as it can without leaving people behind. Setting mono 2.10
as the baseline
> makes it easier for this open source dev community to
accomplish this goal.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ilan Tochner
> Co-Founder and CEO
> Kitely Ltd.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Melanie <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>> It has always been our policy to use the _lowest_ version
of Mono
>> that we can get by on to support the largest possible number of
>> configurations and systems.
>>
>> This is not going to change.
>>
>> The feature required by recent code additions is found in
Mono 2.6,
>> so we are discussing Mono 2.6 now. We are not discussing
Mono 2.10.
>>
>> Melanie
>>
>> On 27/01/2013 15:32, Ilan Tochner wrote:
>> > If, as we both agree, OpenSim works differently with
different versions
>> of
>> > mono then people are going to report bugs that exist when
OpenSim is run
>> on
>> > mono versions prior to 2.10 that don't exist with mono
version 2.10 and
>> > later.
>> >
>> > How many people are there in the OpenSim dev community
that still
>> actively
>> > use a mono version prior to 2.10? In fact, AFAIK, many
devs are already
>> > looking to see when they can safely move to mono 3.0. So,
who is going to
>> > work on fixing bugs that no longer exist with mono 2.10
and later? If no
>> > ones is going to work on doing that then we can't
honestly say that mono
>> > 2.6 or 2.8 are still supported.
>> >
>> > If we intend to have new OpenSim users, we should have
them using the
>> mono
>> > version with which they'll get the best experience with
the existing /
>> > future code base. It doesn't help anyone if they use an
outdated version
>> of
>> > mono and find that the problems they encounter aren't
going to be
>> addressed
>> > because they no longer exist with newer versions of mono.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Ilan Tochner
>> > Co-Founder and CEO
>> > Kitely Ltd.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Dahlia Trimble
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nobody is asking you to use an older version. The
minimum version is
>> >> simply the earliest version that would be required to
run OpenSimulator.
>> >> Anyone is free to use any later version if they so choose.
>> >>
>> >> It's also not true that later versions are necessarily
better. I've
>> >> personally had to disable features in OpenSimulator and
remove them from
>> >> core due to newer versions of Mono which introduced new
bugs that made
>> such
>> >> features unusable.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:05 AM, Ilan Tochner
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Mono 2.10 was released Feb 15th, 2011, i.e almost two
years ago. I
>> don't
>> >>> think there is any target platform that mono 2.6 runs
on that doesn't
>> have
>> >>> mono 2.10 working on it as well.
>> >>>
>> >>> There have been many bug fixes in mono between the 2.6
release and the
>> >>> 2.10 release, some of which can definitely effect
OpenSim performance
>> and
>> >>> stability. Who would choose to use the older mono
version when a
>> better one
>> >>> has been available for at least two years? If someone
reports a problem
>> >>> with OpenSim I think we should require them to at least
test it using
>> mono
>> >>> 2.10 so we can rule out the older mono being the cause
of the problem.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>>
>> >>> Ilan Tochner
>> >>> Co-Founder and CEO
>> >>> Kitely Ltd.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Dahlia Trimble <
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I think the point is raise it to the minimum version
which supports
>> the
>> >>>> codebase. If there was some feature in 2.10 that did
not exist in 2.6
>> and
>> >>>> that feature was required for proper execution, then
2.10 would be a
>> better
>> >>>> target. Otherwise it would just be forcing people to
upgrade who
>> would not
>> >>>> otherwise need to.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There's nothing stopping anyone from upgrading to 2.10
if they desire,
>> >>>> however, requiring a higher version than is really
necessary limits
>> >>>> potential users of the software to those who are able
to install those
>> >>>> versions in their setups. If a goal of OpenSimulator
developers is
>> wide
>> >>>> adoption, then it makes sense to have it be usable on
as many existing
>> >>>> hardware/software configurations as possible.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Ilan Tochner
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I second setting 2.10 as the base. If we'll be
forcing people to
>> >>>>> upgrade I think we should upgrade to the latest
stable release and
>> not to
>> >>>>> one that is outdated.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If OpenSim works fine with 3.0 then I'd vote for it
to be the base.
>> If
>> >>>>> we're still calling OpenSim alpha we should at least
get the
>> benefits of
>> >>>>> doing so. Supporting old versions of mono is a waste
of developer
>> resources.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ilan Tochner
>> >>>>> Co-Founder and CEO
>> >>>>> Kitely Ltd.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Trinity
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> if we can get a way with it why not go to 2.10 else
quickly be out
>> of
>> >>>>>> date agian
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:38 AM, James Hughes <
>> >>>>>> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> +1
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 01/24/2013 10:29 PM, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Whilst writing JsonStore regression tests this
evening, I hit the
>> >>>>>>>> problem where modInvoke script methods of more
than 4 parameters
>> >>>>>>>> cannot
>> >>>>>>>> be registered on Mono 2.4.3 as it doesn't
implement the required
>> >>>>>>>> larger
>> >>>>>>>> multi-parameter Func generic types.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Therefore, I want to bump the minimum Mono version for
>> OpenSimulator
>> >>>>>>>> up
>> >>>>>>>> to 2.6 which was released more than 3 years ago.
This also
>> involves
>> >>>>>>>> bumping the minimum .net framework version up to
4.0, as also
>> >>>>>>>> detailed
>> >>>>>>>> at [1]
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> [1]
http://opensimulator.org/**mantis/view.php?id=5971<
>> http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5971>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Any comments?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>> >>>>>>> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>> >>>>>>>
https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>
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